Last year for V8 2024 (and Mach-E discussion) via Ford Performance conference call

[Bikeman315]

Ban ICE sales in 11 years?

Not gonna happen. ANYWHERE

We have an ocean of FREE energy under our feet, and an entire world-wide infrastructure to support it; and we are just going to throw all of it away? Anyone who believes this crap needs to have their meds changed.

Sorry, but it's already happening and car manufacturers are making adjustments to a time in the not to distant future when ICE becomes a past tense. We are not throwing away anything. We are adapting to a changing future. That's what human beings do. We also hate change which is why these threads exist. That said, as much as I plan on being around in 2030, I'm not sitting around waiting for it. Actually I am sitting down, in my 460HP V8 powered Mustang!

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[tokuzumi]

I traded in my 15' EB and bought my 19' GT/CS for one reason. As a kid growing up in the heyday of the muscle car era, I wanted one last V8. The feel and the sound. We all pretty much agree that there is nothing like it. BUT.....as a group we tend to take ourselves way too seriously. Take every Mustang sold over the past ten years and you will see that ours is just a drop of water in the ocean of automobile sales. Ford could flat out discontinue the Mustang tomorrow and the company would continue to exist. Heck, the world would continue to exist. Look at all of the brands and models that have gone away in the past ten years. Sales in the tens of millions and Ford, GM, & FCA are still around.

Face it the market for a V8 powered two door coupe are dwindling every day. Meanwhile there is a new electric/hybrid car being introduced almost every single day. We all know that the days of our V8 powered cars are numbered. As are our manual transmission cars. So what? So long as there are gas pumps there will be cars for us to drive. Maybe not brand spanking new ones but we'll manage. We can all be outraged and vent our angst all we want, that's what this forum if for. That said, it is not going to change a single solitary thing.

In an unscientific study, I looked on AutoTrader for 2015-2020 (used and new) Mustangs within 500 miles of the south Georgia area. I came back with 3600 4 cylinder models, and 4300 8 cylinder models. Hardly scientific, as geographic regions of the US may have very different buying patterns.

Bottom line, in the southeast US, the V8 is more popular than the 4 cyl.

Ford knows what models of Mustang are selling the best, and they will need to continue to cater to that demographic if the Mustang is to remain a success.

 

[w3rkn]

Green New Deal is a joke. (Written by someone, who is also a joke.)

We all have utopian dreams, but forcing Citizens to comply, before businesses is why Her dreams are farcical. All Companies in the next 30 years will have to convert their entire operations to green, before Citizens follow.

2060'ish is when you will see a workable green energy bill. Until then, it is just fake news!

 

[shogun32]

I came back with 3600 4 cylinder models, and 4300 8 cylinder models. Hardly scientific, as geographic regions of the US may have very different buying patterns.

Bottom line, in the southeast US, the V8 is more popular than the 4 cyl.

You're right about being non-scientific. You can't conclude anything at all from those 2 data points except that there are 7900 Mustangs to choose from. An equally naive but probably more valid "conclusion" is that the V8 isn't selling (or popular to own) as the EB and that's why there are more still for sale than the little brother.

What is the production ratio shipped to dealers in that 500 mile radius? What is the sell-thru ratio of the respective engines? What is the price distribution of the cars on offer and how does it relate to income levels? Does Ford produce 2 EB for every GT? You want registration data, not for sale numbers.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Saw this message from a reliable source.

We were invited to a conference call, along with other Mustang registry and car club decision makers, with Ford Performance’s enthusiast manager. The purpose was to discuss the new Mustang Mach E. I’ll explain some things that came out of the call.

1) It’s happening. Petitions won’t change that. There were many meetings that happened regarding calling it a Mustang and putting a pony on it. The execs were convinced of the idea and that’s that. We are the driving force for ourselves. The hobbyist can do what they want of course, and Ford isn’t interested in our opinion.

2) The purpose of the Mach E and why they called it a Mustang is purely for sales. The execs feel that in spite of declining Mustang sales that the Mustang Mach E will keep the Mustang program alive. The reality is V8 truck sales are more profitable than V8 Mustang sales. It is also easier and more likely to be successful to piggyback off the Mustang brand rather than create a new one or use an existing one. The competition is Tesla. They are banking on the fact you can take your Mach E to any Ford dealership for service. Tesla on the other hand has an 18 day lead time on coming to your location to work on it. We really didn’t get an answer or ask why not a 4-door Mustang or electric Mustang.

3) The executive culture at Ford is a younger crowd. They don’t understand or realize the same heritage of the Mustang as many of us do. There is a disparity between the executives and the hobbyist (us) and essentially they are out of touch with us.

4) “Research” that was done, which may not always be accurate, shows that the target market for sales believes the Mustang is too obnoxious and loud. It also didn’t lend itself to being a family car with the virtually non-useful back seats and lack of 4 doors.

5) By 2024 the V8 engine will not meet emission standards with the “green new deal”. Ford doesn’t have or the money to make them compliant at this time. Once again the Mach E is slated to be the prop for the future pony Mustang generations.

6) Spring 2020 will introduce the new Mustang.

7) They don’t want us to bash the Mach E

1) what other message board?
2) what reliable source?
3) was the above direct quotes or embellishments and “own words” inserted into what was read from that other forum and source?

If V8’s were to go away, the manufacturer would fail - regardless of WHO that manufacturer is...period. A V8 is a staple of Automotive society and has been since it’s inception.

“They” don’t want anyone poking fun at the MACHe?” LMFAO... yea ok. What “they” don’t realize is the backlash isn’t about an EV, it’s about taking an iconic image, name and history and using it on a Ford Escape platform and then trying to fool the public that Ford has introduced something entirely new... not.

Hackett is a “young” CEO? He’s leaving particulate dust trails - and his stint with a furniture company isn’t equivalent to an automotive company... time to go...

 

[AnalogDan]

boomer rumors

 

[Norm Peterson]

Based on your logic GOP reps no longer see it that way either.

I don't think they do either. But the burden of demonstrating otherwise on this particular issue falls on those who are promoting it.

But at least the Dem side has a better reputation of actually holding, and showing up to their town hall meetings and not running from their voters. The point of the GND is to help find/fund those solutions.

Couldn't tell you much about the first . . . my state and county are firmly on the 'blue' side so I don't have much to go on.

AOC may have good intentions, but that's what the road to Hell is paved with. Somehow I just can't see 100% clean renewable energy being capable of supporting any first-world economy, and government isn't supposed to be in the business of being in business.


Norm

 

[Bikeman315]

1) what other message board?
2) what reliable source?
3) was the above direct quotes or embellishments and “own words” inserted into what was read from that other forum and source?

Oh, who cares? It gives us something else to bitch about!

If V8’s were to go away, the manufacturer would fail - regardless of WHO that manufacturer is...period. A V8 is a staple of Automotive society and has been since it’s inception.

Yeah, this is just wishful thinking and we all know it. The F-150's folks said the same thing. Change is inevitable. We do not have to like it.

“They” don’t want anyone poking fun at the MACHe?” LMFAO... yea ok. What “they” don’t realize is the backlash isn’t about an EV, it’s about taking an iconic image, name and history and using it on a Ford Escape platform and then trying to fool the public that Ford has introduced something entirely new... not.

Honestly this is the one point that actually makes me believe this whole thing. can you not believe some idiot at Ford would say that? I would bet that if you took a poll of the Ford rank and file the great majority would think that putting the Mustang name on the Mach-E is a mistake. Unfortunately they and we do not count.

 

[Shewantsthe5oh]

All this talk of the V8 going away sounds like some bs to me. Ford will still make a V8 they just designed the GT500 that motor could last 10 years at least. The coyote is about to hit its 10 year mark and is still extremely potent. 460hp out of a 5.0 is insane from the factory under 40k with a warranty. Look at chevy still sitting there with a 6.2 making less horsepower and mpg as well as FCA with the 392 hemi making just shy of 500hp. FCA is still trying to stick a V8 or supercharged V8 in dang near every car they can. The Jeep Trackhawk cost near 100K with barely any options and people who make 50K a year are still buying it. Same for the Hellcat alot of people dont mind paying 25% of their monthly salary or more to drive a car they enjoy. Granted my wife has a pretty good job as well but if you took only my income I pay almost 30% of my monthly salary to have 1000 combined hp in my driveway and I don't regret it when I get in my car in the morning and turn it on and it returns the favor. There will be people like me/us that love the V8 regardless of the cost/mpg/sound compared to the alternatives. Rant over

 

[13GetThere]

Climate change/global warming is a farce created to control the masses, but that's a topic unrelated to this forum.
People who are pushing for all electric vehicles to save the climate have no idea what they are talking about. Because electricity has to be made and most of it comes from power plants that use carbon producing fuels to make the electricity. Solar, wind, and hydro can't keep up with demand, and nuclear is opposed by the very people who demand pollution free energy. In order to charge the batteries of an electric vehicle it has to be plugged into the electric grid. More cars being plugged in means more load on the power plant. More load on the power plant means more of that evil carbon in the atmosphere. More demand for power means more power plants will be needed. More plants needed means the price of electricity is going up to pay for the plants.
Lets not forget that when the electric vehicle is charged it's going to cost somebody, the electric bill has to be paid.
Once all the realities of these electric vehicles hit home, some people might start to realize they have been sold a bill of goods, but I figure we'll all be screwed by then.

 

[LSchicago]

I'm solidly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp. But as long as the performance is there, I'm not so concerned with what is under the hood. Ford has been doing some great things with their ecoboost line of engines. The 3.0 eb in the MKZ makes 400hp, and could easily be tuned to bump that number to the mid-400 range with some turbo and intercooler tweaks. Fuel economy when out of boost should be better due to smaller displacement.

JUST DON'T TAKE AWAY THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION!

I won't buy such a car. The last car I buy will still be a V8. And the A10 kicks ass!

 

[Schwerin]

I don't think they do either. But the burden of demonstrating otherwise on this particular issue falls on those who are promoting it.



Couldn't tell you much about the first . . . my state and county are firmly on the 'blue' side so I don't have much to go on.

AOC may have good intentions, but that's what the road to Hell is paved with. Somehow I just can't see 100% clean renewable energy being capable of supporting any first-world economy, and government isn't supposed to be in the business of being in business.


Norm

I fully agree with that. The only issue is that businesses have 0 reason to care about people or the planet. They are simply money driven, which means they will gladly run the planet into the ground as long as there is profit. I mean look at cities like LA, and Philly before the EPA stepped up and started to force things like Cat converters, unleaded fuel and better emissions for industries. It was borderline as bad as parts of China. Businesses wouldn't have done that themselves.
Heck they tried to pretend they COULDN'T do it. A great example is GM saying that it was impossible to make one of their V8's meet emissions and the head of Honda buying one, shipping it to Japan, and using their technology to improve the heads, intake manifold and carb. They shipped it back to the EPA for it to not just meet emissions but beat them, without needing a cat, not loose any power and gain MPG.

But people will argue, "if people want green it, they will pay for it and companies will make it." Sure.. that would work.. if the lower and middle class wasn't growing more and more poor. They don't have the money to pay for the "green" option when they always want to. They are buying what they can afford. Green options are often the pricier luxury.

 

[tokuzumi]

Honda had some cool tech in the late 70s, early 80s with their CVCC engines.

 

[shogun32]

> The executive culture at Ford is a younger crowd
> The execs feel

The first rule of business is that "executives" of any large org are only professional managers and THE stupidest and nearsighted people on the planet. They have zero personal economic risk. They can destroy the company and they will still get handsomely compensated for it. And they will get re-hired at another company and perfectly willing to turn it too into a smoking crater. Ever since the 80's when capitalism went off the rails the watch word has been 'financialization' or it's kissing cousin 'value extraction'.

The V8 for trucks won't be going anywhere soon. The competition is Tesla only because for decades Ford et. al. have been coasting on mediocre engineering, and worse production quality. Back in the day the Big3 were ruthless about crushing their competition - albeit not thru excellence, that would require smart people and honest effort, but with criminal and legislative action. They allowed Tesla to become a thing when they could have blown him out of the water by actually making a good product. They still might with the Escape Sport-E (I refuse to call that thing a pony anything, and if I repeat it often enough it'll gain traction. feel free to retweet) but I would give a snow ball better odds. Individual line workers or engineers may be passionate and do quality work, but in the aggregate the Big3 are extremely dysfunctional. Tesla is "succeeding" because it has to or it dies tomorrow. Ford needs to start burning the proverbial ships.

Not saying the future is electric. That would just be stupid and an utter fantasy.

The fuddy-duddies who remember the 60's or 70's are dying off at a rapid clip, true. And if profit maximization were the only criteria the only vehicle coming out of Dearborn would be Fx50 in it's name, or the Explorer/Edge/Escape.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/267830/brand-values-of-the-top-10-most-valuable-car-brands/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/316786/global-market-share-of-the-leading-automakers/

3-way horse race against the Honda and Nissan and clearly behind VW and Toyota. Wasn't there a cadre of ex-Toyota guys who go around stomping their clients into some semblance of shape? Might want to go hire them instead of a group-think marketing firm that believes their own bullsh*t.

 

[bnightstar]

In Europe in 2020 the regulations suggest the cars should be less than 96 CO2 grams even my Fiesta is 99 CO2 grams with lead to the only two car makers that are bellow the mark are Tesla and Smart. If this trend continue in the next few years the Mustang will stop selling in Europe which is very sad as we just got it :(. I honestly think that the V8 will be gone question is will it be gone in the S550 form or in S650 ? or whatever the new platform is as this will affect feature resell value of our cars. I plan to keep the Mustang as long as possible and if we switch to electric I plan to drive it till there is fuel left on the planet. With this petrol prices I guess is good to invest in few barrels of petrol for the feature.

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