Last year for V8 2024 (and Mach-E discussion) via Ford Performance conference call

Norm Peterson

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There will be no ICE cars sold in Europe after 2030 (this is legally binding) and most European car makers have stopped ICE development for the long term.
Time will tell if what was legally possible to require matches up with the realities of physics and the demands of the populations for transportation. I have a feeling that something will have to give, and given that man-made laws do not supersede those of physics . . .


Norm





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Zelek

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The Mach-E sucks, it's not a Mustang, and I hope it flops when it releases and everyone cancels their pre-orders and they rot on the dealer lots. There, I broke #7.
 

Norm Peterson

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Actually she never said it. She said the point is to make Air travel not "necessary". AKA, have viable, cleaner alternatives. The GOP loves taking it out of context though. Herself and others that helped write the deal have repeatedly said that there is 0 plan to end air travel. Just promote cleaner alternatives where and when possible.
It's one thing to want change. Another thing entirely to have a realistic plan for making such change actually work, where 'realistic' necessarily involves the concept of affordability. I dare suggest that liberal U.S. Representatives whose salary runs well into 6 figures no longer see things in quite the same light as the constituents in the lower 5-digit brackets who voted them in.

What AOC and the GND supporters have is a want without a realistic solution.


Norm
 

shogun32

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The average CO2 value for all cars sold by a car maker in Europe from 2020 must be below 95g/km
all predicated on multiple scientific frauds. The EU will likely continue to self-destruct while eco-preening all the way to the grave. But with any luck Brexit and the public rejection of the toothless Kyoto accords will bury this nonsense. I see Itexit and Frexit on the not-too distant future.
There will be no ICE cars sold in Europe after 2030 (this is legally binding) and most European car makers have stopped ICE development for the long term.
I look to Hungary etc. who will flout the EU "rules" with impunity because they still have functioning neurons. Edicts from the king don't have any weight if the buying public won't go along, or better yet the public throws them out of office which is happening with increasing regularity.

http://carsalesbase.com/european-sales-2019-q3-ev-phev-segments/
Plug-in vehicles accounted for 3,2% of the European car market, up from 2,2% in the full year 2018.

Sure I can see EV continuing to grow at 1-1.5%/yr in market share. But that still only gets you to 20% by 2030 and then the 'smarter than filthy unwashed' crowd thinks they're going to throw a big switch and go to 100?

I dare wonder what happens when the world economy blows sky high and/or the "economic incentives" (aka theft from your fellow man) evaporate. Where subsidies are cut, sales tank likewise.
 

Fenrir

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Well,

If you have another opportunity to be in on a call or forwarding some information to Ford Executives I hope this one finds it's way there in some form or fashion. Clearly the marketing research performed was cherry picked for a demographic that never had an interest in the Mustang, nor the Coyote platform in the first place. The level of ignorance and hubris by a group of executives after nearly every major automaker in America needed a bailout not that long ago is appalling. They have multiple brands that bring in sales where they could have easily branched into a separate electrical program with far more public enthusiasm and free marketing. They chose not to. They wanted to use a badge they claim themselves is dying - to alienate and create a compromising public campaign against the automaker it was attempting to benefit. So now you're telling me that you also want to remove the V8 Mustang by 2024? If they adore their large homes, they should reconsider. All of them were educated to diversify and look for opportunity that isn't already in the forefront. They had an opportunity to take an iconic coupe and create another coupe that pushes the electrical initiative and would have given them worldwide recognition as one of the first consumer american pony car platform holders. That alone would have opened wallets. Instead they think they're going get mass adoption of the mom-mobile.

Sorry, but even though i'm new to Ford ownership i've been a fan of American coupes for a long time. If they think we're going to stop trashing it and creating negative add campaigns they're sorely mistaken. But it can also become a financial campaign as well. Not all of us are just commentators. When stock recommendations come around for Ford - i'll look forward to telling people to sell. Word of mouth goes around fast. They better hope this sickeningly expensive gamble pays off.
 

Schwerin

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It's one thing to want change. Another thing entirely to have a realistic plan for making such change actually work, where 'realistic' necessarily involves the concept of affordability. I dare suggest that liberal U.S. Representatives whose salary runs well into 6 figures no longer see things in quite the same light as the constituents in the lower 5-digit brackets who voted them in.

What AOC and the GND supporters have is a want without a realistic solution.


Norm
Based on your logic GOP reps no longer see it that way either. But at least the Dem side has a better reputation of actually holding, and showing up to their town hall meetings and not running from their voters. The point of the GND is to help find/fund those solutions.
 

v8hgt

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Interesting post. I can accept that it’s pretty much on the money too. The s550 platform could be stretched to 2024 with 1 or 2 more mild refreshes along the way. If a next gen platform ever comes it would have to be Mach E based to meet future legislation and recoup investment. No point developing a platform with a great big hole in the front for a quad cam V8.
Jeep are going full EV by the looks of it. Pretty much all major car makers have stopped investment in ICE platforms. Ferrari are looking at 2024 for their first EV. They have to be selling EV by 2025 to ensure a future after 2030 when large markets legislate to ban ICE sales.
 

Zelek

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I'll be ordering the final Mustang V8 and that for sure will be a collector's car in the future. Still won't hold a candle to a 67 Mustang, but still something 30 years from now.
 

Copperhead73

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I'll be ordering the final Mustang V8 and that for sure will be a collector's car in the future. Still won't hold a candle to a 67 Mustang, but still something 30 years from now.
No doubt. I don't necessarily believe that Ford has made the decision, but I certainly recognize it is within the realm of reason. One thing is for certain, they are in business to earn profits. If in the future they can do so by making more Mustang V8s, they will. I will start preparing myself to make a purchase on that last one if/when it does come around.

The funny thing will be that more than likely, the demand will be very high for them...driving up the price/demand and possibly making Ford reconsider. Who knows...this could be a leak to really pop sales in 2024 (I think someone suggested that). I kind of doubt that though. Stock holders generally wouldn't respond to that sort of thing very well.
 

Snake Plissken

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...they have to be selling EV by 2025 to ensure a future after 2030 when large markets legislate to ban ICE sales.
Ban ICE sales in 11 years?

Not gonna happen. ANYWHERE

We have an ocean of FREE energy under our feet, and an entire world-wide infrastructure to support it; and we are just going to throw all of it away? Anyone who believes this crap needs to have their meds changed.
 

EFI

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Honestly unless a law comes down hard and just says "no more V8s after 2024" I really really doubt V8 production will be killed by purely CAFE and emissions regulations.

There are ways to modernize a V8 and keep it going (hybrid, downsizing, turbocharging etc.) You may very well have a small hybrid V8 in future Mustangs and other performance cars.
 

The_Phantom

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Saw this message from a reliable source.

We were invited to a conference call, along with other Mustang registry and car club decision makers, with Ford Performance’s enthusiast manager. The purpose was to discuss the new Mustang Mach E. I’ll explain some things that came out of the call.

1) It’s happening. Petitions won’t change that. There were many meetings that happened regarding calling it a Mustang and putting a pony on it. The execs were convinced of the idea and that’s that. We are the driving force for ourselves. The hobbyist can do what they want of course, and Ford isn’t interested in our opinion.

Ford has never been interested in ANYONE'S opinion. Just their money.

2) The purpose of the Mach E and why they called it a Mustang is purely for sales. The execs feel that in spite of declining Mustang sales that the Mustang Mach E will keep the Mustang program alive. The reality is V8 truck sales are more profitable than V8 Mustang sales. It is also easier and more likely to be successful to piggyback off the Mustang brand rather than create a new one or use an existing one. The competition is Tesla. They are banking on the fact you can take your Mach E to any Ford dealership for service. Tesla on the other hand has an 18 day lead time on coming to your location to work on it. We really didn’t get an answer or ask why not a 4-door Mustang or electric Mustang.

I doubt this will work, but again...they don't care.

3) The executive culture at Ford is a younger crowd. They don’t understand or realize the same heritage of the Mustang as many of us do. There is a disparity between the executives and the hobbyist (us) and essentially they are out of touch with us.

CEO Beckett is an old man living a pipe dream. Not sure how ANY company can blame their mindset/product failures on a "younger crowd" when it takes a PhD and 30+ years experience to hire in as a janitor making peanuts.

4) “Research” that was done, which may not always be accurate, shows that the target market for sales believes the Mustang is too obnoxious and loud. It also didn’t lend itself to being a family car with the virtually non-useful back seats and lack of 4 doors.

No research required...it has NEVER been a viable family car. This one makes me "WTF"....

5) By 2024 the V8 engine will not meet emission standards with the “green new deal”. Ford doesn’t have or the money to make them compliant at this time. Once again the Mach E is slated to be the prop for the future pony Mustang generations.

Ford has the ability, they just aren't interested in doing it. American car companies are all lazy on the engineering front. If you want to see what is truly going to be the next big thing, look to the Germans to invent it and the Japanese to make it reliable.

6) Spring 2020 will introduce the new Mustang.

7) They don’t want us to bash the Mach E
6 is a non-point, and 7...well...much like they don't care what I want, I don't care what they want.

The Mach E is crap. End of.
 

tokuzumi

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I'm solidly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp. But as long as the performance is there, I'm not so concerned with what is under the hood. Ford has been doing some great things with their ecoboost line of engines. The 3.0 eb in the MKZ makes 400hp, and could easily be tuned to bump that number to the mid-400 range with some turbo and intercooler tweaks. Fuel economy when out of boost should be better due to smaller displacement.

JUST DON'T TAKE AWAY THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION!
 

ihc95

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This sounds like bullshit to me. The Corvette will definitely have a V8 throughout the whole decade, why can't the Mustang?

Also, I'm not interested in an Ecoboost, V6TT, or EV Mustang. To me, the whole point of the car is the V8. Without one, owning a Mustang simply isn't worth the lack of practicality. I'd just get something like an S4, Golf R, or M340i which would be much more usable here in the northeast.
 

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