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Last year for V8 2024 (and Mach-E discussion) via Ford Performance conference call

zackmd1

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The modular architecture - bore center dimension in particular - was probably about right for a 4.0L V8. What we got was already a mild 'stroker' up to essentially 'square' bore x stroke. Already a compromise.


Norm
DOHC tech shines in small displacement engines like you said. When you get into bigger displacements though it starts to become less and less of an advantage. That's why Ford went back to OHV with the 7.3l.

The mod architecture was a compromised design from the start and Ford has done a pretty damn good job of pushing everything they can out of it. Arguably they pushed to far in some areas (plasma bore liners anyone?).
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Bikeman315

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he entire first post is conjecture. Lol @ thinking a "green new deal" is the reason that the V8 is going away. There is no green new deal. When I read that line, I knew the OP was full of shit.
OP, has been a trusted member of this forum for quite sometime. I do not think he is FOS. I think there was a conversation. Just do not know how much is true vs conjecture.

The idea that an SUV wearing the pony somehow “keeps the mustang program alive” is a joke.
The Mach-E is the program. The hope is that by associating the Mustang to it it keeps our Mustang alive a little longer.

All the more reason to boycott this thing. The only way Ford will listen. When the well runs dry, they’ll go to where the water is.
Boycotting Ford. Good luck with that. A handful of Mustang owners boycotting a vehicle they weren't going to buy in the first place. I understand the emotion buy this would prove to be useless.

Saying customer don't like it and want a more quiet family car with 4 doors and electric motor
Sorry Ace, but this comment is 100% untrue. Now one at Ford said the customer doesn't like it. It's actually the opposite. That's why they used the Mustang name in the first place.

Yeah, something doesn't add up. I'm not suggesting this conference call didn't take place.......but I wonder how much of what has been repeated is out of context. EBM, the original poster, has gone very quiet.
I noticed that too. Maybe the post was 100% spot on and a shit storm erupted when someone inside Ford found out it was posted on the forum. Like everything else on here it could either way.
 

Ecoboosted

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So no more V8 in 2024? I'll be keeping my 18' GT until i can't drive anymore, no more gas or they out law ICE vehicles. Reminds me of the song Red Barchetta by Rush.

 

Bikeman315

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The best way for us to keep the V8 alive is to keep buying them new.
I'm through stressing about the Mach E. It's the Probe of the times.
It might be a nice vehicle, and it might be around for a few years.
However, it could never take the Mustang's place.
Want to help ensure the future of the V8 in the Mustang?
Buy them brand new. If it keeps selling, Ford should keep building them.
How I wish this were true. Unfortunately it's not. Based on the other cars Ford has already killed, the Mustang V8 with its paltry sales would have been dead a long time ago. What we need to do is to buy the other Mustang branded models. That keeps the heritage alive and hopefully the car and the V8.
 

Bikeman315

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There is a lot of evidence of ties between climate change theories, big business and politicians.
This is probably the truest comment made in this entire thread. But like it or not this cuts both ways. Like everything I like to get input from both sides. The truth is always in the middle.

More evidence to support my theory is that right before the global warming scare, the same people were talking about global COOLING. But the public wasn't scared enough by that, so they came up with something different.
There was an old Twilight Zone episode about the Earth moving closer to the Sun and everyone starting to burn up. The twist was the main character was sick and when she woke up the opposite was true. the Earth was moving away from the Sun and everyone was freezing. The moral, pick your poison.
 

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analogman

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This thread is a fine collection of science denial, speculation, auto industry "rumor", and emotional chest pumping.
I personally am a big believer in both climate change science (being a scientist) and in the need to make significant changes to save the planet, and ourselves.

But killing the V8 and IC engines in general just to switch to ‘electric’ cars would accomplish little unless the means of generating electricity are changed from fossil fuels to renewable sources of energy.

An inconvenient truth is that EVs are only as clean as the energy source used to generate the electricity.

See my post #220 back on page 15.

As others have said, the thing about science and facts are that they’re true whether a person chooses to believe them or not.
 

IronG

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??? Not quite sure how you can reduce weight, drag, and rolling resistance through software???

Yes they can tweak the software/firmware to squeeze out more efficient operation. I just got an update 2 weeks ago that added about 10 miles of range because of this. You are not going to get massive increases in range if you drop peak power though. Like I said, it takes a certain amount of energy to move a vehicle at 70mph down the road (not even taking into account starting). You might see single digit or maybe low double digit increases in range with a significant cut of peak power but the trade off likely isn't worth it.
Those items will help, but using electric motors for cars is new. It makes sense to use the power 100% all the time right now, because people like flashy fast things. This absolutely helps Tesla sell its cars even if most people never use it that way. Is there really a need to have the electric motor (s) always spinning at high RPM's? Is it necessary for the motor to have and to always utilize 300+ HP? ICE engines are controlled by size and design for efficiency. In many cases double or more. Yes ICE has been around a long time and experience with what makes them for efficient has greatly helped. The same will happen with EV's, the problem is, they either have not tried or don't want to lose the performance in lieu of efficiency. Trust me, they could make an EV that goes 0-60 in 8 seconds, with a top speed of 115 mph and get much great range with the same battery they use now. The point I am making here is that they should spend more time on making them get 500 mile ranges or more and not worry that they might be slower than an ICE car.
 

Bikeman315

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Trust me, they could make an EV that goes 0-60 in 8 seconds, with a top speed of 115 mph and get much great range with the same battery they use now. The point I am making here is that they should spend more time on making them get 500 mile ranges or more and not worry that they might be slower than an ICE car.
So True......Considering that the #1 complaint most people have about EV's is lack of range why hasn't this already been done?
 

Hack

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This is probably the truest comment made in this entire thread. But like it or not this cuts both ways. Like everything I like to get input from both sides. The truth is always in the middle.


There was an old Twilight Zone episode about the Earth moving closer to the Sun and everyone starting to burn up. The twist was the main character was sick and when she woke up the opposite was true. the Earth was moving away from the Sun and everyone was freezing. The moral, pick your poison.
I agree it cuts both ways, but I'm not partisan on most things in the way you seem to be from your statement. I think generally both sides of the aisle are accepting donations from the same large businesses. Depending on the source of money politicians will lie to get in office and then do the opposite. On climate change the Dems tend to tell the truth and the RINOs lie. Other issues those things are flipped.

Funny you should mention the sun, because my personal theory is that the sun has more to do with climate change on Earth than people give it credit for. The sun doesn't give off the exact same amount of radiation year after year. Like all things natural there is variation.
 

IronG

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I so envy all you guys in the USA who can choose if you want a next president that is in favor or against V8's. Over here in Europe we can vote whatever we want, the unchosen climate hysterical dictators that run the European Union will kill all ICE vehicles in the next 10 years anyway.


Personally I am not the least bit interested in any ICE vehicle other than a V8. Whenever I drive a 4 banger or even a V6 the only thing that comes to mind is how lame they sound. As far as I'm concerned if the V8 were eventually to disappear I would wholeheartedly embrace a high power AWD dual electric motor Mustang BEV coupe over any V6 or I4 ICE version. At least that will give you insane acceleration to compensate for the loss of sound emotion.
I truly feel for you. Europe has for quite a while leaned toward social liberal agendas. There really isn't any deterrent for it there. The reason the US and China don't go the same way is for two big reasons. In the US, everything is commanded by capitalism and freedom to choose. In China it is an iron fist and capitalism. Both combinations are the enemy of socialism and to liberalism, but at a lesser rate. Russia had the iron fist, but could not hold it because of socialism. Those two ideas clash and that is why if failed. Socialism is nearly the polar opposite of capitalism you can't have both leading the way. You certainly can have some items from each, such as social assistance programs, but they need to be helpers, not enablers. Unfortunately for you, socialism has taken a front row seat in Europe, however maybe it will slow and revert over time. In the US, there are plenty of socialist minded politicians, thankfully they don't get enough support to be widespread. EV's though will eventually take over or maybe fuel cells and ICE is on the downward slope, but it is a pretty long slope. I think in the US at least the V8 will live on for another decade at least. After that, probably buh bye and into the sunset it goes.
 

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Bikeman315

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I agree it cuts both ways, but I'm not partisan on most things in the way you seem to be from your statement.
I was for many years a Democrat and a moderate liberal. I was also part of the first generation of 18 yr olds that could vote. As many of my generation we started out looking to our parents as our moral compass and followed their beliefs. Then we started to grow up and form our our belief systems. I'm 67 now, and over the years been pulled more and more to the right. I am now an Independent and a Centrist. That's why sometimes i sound like a Democrat and other times a Republican. It depends on the issue. Why do we have to be only one way or the other? Maybe that's the problem. Let's open our eyes and ears and listen to everyones ideas and opinions. What could it hurt?
 

IronG

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So True......Considering that the #1 complaint most people have about EV's is lack of range why hasn't this already been done?
Cost and desire. Right now would you buy an EV that was slower than an ICE car? You might if it got 500 miles range, but it would be expensive....guessing in the 70-80k range. It was far easier and cheaper to make them fast so that is what they went with. Once EV's catch on and become cheaper to make, you will have the range as that will be what most people want....not speed. No different than what you see with ICE cars today. Few buy the fast inefficient sports cars. The ironic thing is they buy slow inefficient SUV's, but you can haul a lot more crap in them, so it is a compromise I guess.
 

IronG

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This thread is a fine collection of science denial, speculation, auto industry "rumor", and emotional chest pumping.
You just summed up the "American Way"....can't say it has not worked out well for us.
 

Erik427

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Saw this message from a reliable source.

We were invited to a conference call, along with other Mustang registry and car club decision makers, with Ford Performance’s enthusiast manager. The purpose was to discuss the new Mustang Mach E. I’ll explain some things that came out of the call.

1) It’s happening. Petitions won’t change that. There were many meetings that happened regarding calling it a Mustang and putting a pony on it. The execs were convinced of the idea and that’s that. We are the driving force for ourselves. The hobbyist can do what they want of course, and Ford isn’t interested in our opinion.

2) The purpose of the Mach E and why they called it a Mustang is purely for sales. The execs feel that in spite of declining Mustang sales that the Mustang Mach E will keep the Mustang program alive. The reality is V8 truck sales are more profitable than V8 Mustang sales. It is also easier and more likely to be successful to piggyback off the Mustang brand rather than create a new one or use an existing one. The competition is Tesla. They are banking on the fact you can take your Mach E to any Ford dealership for service. Tesla on the other hand has an 18 day lead time on coming to your location to work on it. We really didn’t get an answer or ask why not a 4-door Mustang or electric Mustang.

3) The executive culture at Ford is a younger crowd. They don’t understand or realize the same heritage of the Mustang as many of us do. There is a disparity between the executives and the hobbyist (us) and essentially they are out of touch with us.

4) “Research” that was done, which may not always be accurate, shows that the target market for sales believes the Mustang is too obnoxious and loud. It also didn’t lend itself to being a family car with the virtually non-useful back seats and lack of 4 doors.

5) By 2024 the V8 engine will not meet emission standards with the “green new deal”. Ford doesn’t have or the money to make them compliant at this time. Once again the Mach E is slated to be the prop for the future pony Mustang generations.

6) Spring 2020 will introduce the new Mustang.

7) They don’t want us to bash the Mach E
Now's the time to use the 7.3!
The heads have been reported to flow around 375 - 400 cfm on the intake side.
No word about them being ported or not.
 

Hack

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I was for many years a Democrat and a moderate liberal. I was also part of the first generation of 18 yr olds that could vote. As many of my generation we started out looking to our parents as our moral compass and followed their beliefs. Then we started to grow up and form our our belief systems. I'm 67 now, and over the years been pulled more and more to the right. I am now an Independent and a Centrist. That's why sometimes i sound like a Democrat and other times a Republican. It depends on the issue. Why do we have to be only one way or the other? Maybe that's the problem. Let's open our eyes and ears and listen to everyones ideas and opinions. What could it hurt?
As you can tell, I'm (possibly overly) cynical. I don't trust any politicians on either side to do anything except lie and take my money. My preference is term limits, strict law enforcement and limited government so those people are less likely to mess things up.

I agree with having eyes and ears open and I believe mine are. I'm not a skeptic on all scientific theories, but some of them definitely peg my BS meter. I was reading these two articles recently that are full of "scientists don't know why" type of statements. These are the types of articles that confirm my skepticism.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/the-arctics-most-stable-sea-ice-is-vanishing-alarmingly-fast
https://www.foxnews.com/science/new...ic-glacier-adds-to-rising-seas-scientists-say
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