Killer Performance in tank Aeromotive Brushless hat

[Angrey]

I spoke to Aeromotive a couple of years ago, and they weren't really interested in developing an in tank brushless setup. The gentleman I spoke to indicated they'd looked at the concept but with the IRS/saddle tank systems, they preferred in line and surge tank/race fuel cell setups.

Apparently Killer Performance convinced them to do a prototype. It can run either the 3.5gpm or the 5.0gpm pumps and retains the factory sending unit perch.

These brushless/true variable systems are long overdue, but I feel like they're arriving at the end of the party. We're on the beginning of the decline with EV's coming.

Nonethless, it's great to see another viable brushless system on the market that goes in tank.

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Friends Don’t Let Friends Experience Fuel Starvation – Aeromotive, Inc (aeromotiveinc.com)

There are a lot of the status quo systems on the market that get all ass hurt when you tell them you don't want to have to run 60 amps of current draw constantly or keep an E85 car over half full (or run the risk of starvation from naked pumps). Some further refinement of this setup would be needed to eliminate the fuel level issue, but in true variable, you could run less draw than OEM while cruising and daily'ing while having enough sauce to run 1400 rwhp when needed. Very cool. Aeromotive is pretty "proud" of their big brushless pumps, so at the price point, it may or may not be comparable to the traditional brush style triple pump setup (when adding in all the costs of the controller, the custom hat, etc).

The more of this the better though.

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[80FoxCoupe]

I like this product, but that price!!!

 

[Angrey]

I like this product, but that price!!!

Yeah, the price for the pumps are kinda a kick in the crotch. I don't know what the aeromotives are rated for boosting, but in theory if it could withstand even 18v intermittent, (which most of the brushless can do just fine) then in theory you could buy the 3.5GPM pump and with a booster, you've got nearly 800 l/h without the booster then probably another 250 l/h with a booster.

Fuelab is having availability issues but I think their coke can pumps aren't as expensive and the new line of typical in tank sized pumps when paired are probably a little cheaper still.

I went with the DW's and a pair of them aren't cheap but with a booster they both flow way more than my car will ever drink.

I think it's just good to see more and more brushless options out there.

 

[Proshop]

Damn looks like I spent my money to soon with them! Leave it up to me to be a day early and a dollar short….

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Yeah, the price for the pumps are kinda a kick in the crotch. I don't know what the aeromotives are rated for boosting, but in theory if it could withstand even 18v intermittent, (which most of the brushless can do just fine) then in theory you could buy the 3.5GPM pump and with a booster, you've got nearly 800 l/h without the booster then probably another 250 l/h with a booster.

Fuelab is having availability issues but I think their coke can pumps aren't as expensive and the new line of typical in tank sized pumps when paired are probably a little cheaper still.

I went with the DW's and a pair of them aren't cheap but with a booster they both flow way more than my car will ever drink.

I think it's just good to see more and more brushless options out there.

I'd be interested in the 5gpm unit. I'll wait to see what the actual availability looks like. Says November, but I bet it's pushed back like everything else.

 

[smokescreens]

Yeah, the price for the pumps are kinda a kick in the crotch. I don't know what the aeromotives are rated for boosting, but in theory if it could withstand even 18v intermittent, (which most of the brushless can do just fine) then in theory you could buy the 3.5GPM pump and with a booster, you've got nearly 800 l/h without the booster then probably another 250 l/h with a booster.

Fuelab is having availability issues but I think their coke can pumps aren't as expensive and the new line of typical in tank sized pumps when paired are probably a little cheaper still.

I went with the DW's and a pair of them aren't cheap but with a booster they both flow way more than my car will ever drink.

I think it's just good to see more and more brushless options out there.

Did you do twin brushless?

 

[Angrey]

Did you do twin brushless?

Twin DW440s. One of the smallest pumps on the market. 42mm casing and very short. Between the two of them on an 8AN feed they supported 1100 rwhp (so far) and if I ever go bigger (which I don't think I will) then I can boost them to 18V continuous and 22V intermittent, basically they'll support up to 1600 or 1700 hp (with booster) on E85. More than I'll ever need. They're not cheap, but when you start comparing them to a dual or triple pump setup, not that much more expensive.

A single DW440 with booster is comparable to a pair of Ti285 pumps (without booster), just a little bit shy. So roughly $700 for the DW (boosted) setup vs $300 for the Ti pumps.

A pair of DW440's will run you about $900. With boosters you're looking at $1400. That's enough to run deep into 4 digits on E85.

A triple pump setup with controllers and hobbs switch is going to cost you about the same (if you take out the hat for both systems).

There's other threads that discuss the benefits of brushless vs brush style, so the additional costs come with some benefits.

I added cost to my system (on top of the twin brushless) by eliminating the siphon system (and deliberating lifting the fuel over with pumps) and also added a fuelab electronic pressure regulator (to control the pump controllers). All in, I'm a little more expensive than the top triple pump setups (but no more siphon concerns, low fuel level concerns, and I run much less amp draw when cruising and idling).

 

[smokescreens]

Do you have them in the dw fuel hat or something else? I have a single dw400 now. Was thinking about getting a dw440. Im getting the itch to switch to e85.

 

[Angrey]

Do you have them in the dw fuel hat or something else? I have a single dw400 now. Was thinking about getting a dw440. Im getting the itch to switch to e85.

I went with the newest version of Radium's hat. Has 10 posts for electrical connections (2 for the sending unit and 8 for the pumps, the brushless technically need 4 wires each (3 phase) but I'm told you can simply run one of the neutrals to ground and be okay).

The Radium hat is more of a bucket, with a one way bladder check valve to allow fuel in but not out. So it creates a mini surge tank inside the driver's side saddle. The volume is pretty small, so at lower fuel levels and hard acceleration, I was concerned WOT fuel flows would suck the bucket down, so that's part of the reason I eliminated the puny siphon trickle and went with lift pumps from the other side. Now the 2 low pressure lift pumps are dumping fuel into the bucket at about 400 lph. So the bucket is being filled by the ambient hydrostatic pressure/flow from the tank through the check valve, and an additional 400 liters/hour from the other saddle. (it's also getting the return feed but that's net zero because the same amount of fuel is going to and from).

Most of the hangers on the market are "naked" pumps, which is why it's risky to WOT the car at lower fuel levels. Many/most would say that's no big deal, just means you have to keep 1/2 or more if you're gonna flog it, but with E85, that means you're either filling up every 60-70 miles or you spend half your tank driving like an old woman.

 

[bankyf]

I saw this on Sunday, the same day my Fuelab pumps were to arrive. I really like the single pump solution and i you add up the fuel hat and dual brushless pumps/controllers you are already in the ballpark for price. I seriously considered returning everything, but ultimately don't want to wait until november for the Aeromotive pump.

 

[Angrey]

I saw this on Sunday, the same day my Fuelab pumps were to arrive. I really like the single pump solution and i you add up the fuel hat and dual brushless pumps/controllers you are already in the ballpark for price. I seriously considered returning everything, but ultimately don't want to wait until november for the Aeromotive pump.

I don't think so.

Killer Performance is gonna charge something for their hat/hanger. If it's anything comparable to the cost of the other hanger/hats, that's a wash.

The Aero pumps are $1600 for the 3.5gpm and $1800 for the 5.0gpm.

Your Fuelab in tanks were probably $500 (MSRP for $560) with the controllers right? So you're at about 1000 for twin pumps. In hindsight, I wish the Fuelab in tanks would have been available. They're about the same price (just a tad more expensive) than the DW440s and flow a little more. The DW's are rated to be boosted higher (18v continuous 22V intermittent).

I think the twin brushless in tank is probably the way to go from a cost/value standpoint.

 

[bankyf]

They have pricing on facebook and it's right in the ballpark of the numbers you quoted, which puts the 3.5 GPM at almost the exact same as my fuelab pumps and radium setup. I'm happy with what I got, but I have always been worried about unknowingly having a single pump/controller fail and running lean

 

[engineermike]

I don’t Facebook so can somebody please post the price of these complete assemblies?

 

[illtal]

I ordered the 49614 Fuelab Pumps, 72001 controllers and the radium hat for under $1500. it was $1496.57. at 55PSI you're at 490 LPH, not that much drop off from 500 at 43.5PSI

I'm going to run this like the stock bucket to see if it is indeed pulling enough fuel from the passenger saddle and if it is working like stock.

 

[illtal]

They have pricing on facebook and it's right in the ballpark of the numbers you quoted, which puts the 3.5 GPM at almost the exact same as my fuelab pumps and radium setup. I'm happy with what I got, but I have always been worried about unknowingly having a single pump/controller fail and running lean

Well my friend if you are in the 4 digit range, any hiccup from any dual pump setup will cause a failure.
Under 1000 one pump will be fine.

As a quick reference 1 LPH is equivalent to 1.95 HP on E85 : 1LPH is around 2.4 on the petrol.

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