It’s coming... 3 States have now banned future combustion engine car sales

[sk47]

So here’s a crazy shit idea someone figures out a combustion energy source that replaces the Carbon Foot print effect but keeps the Ice Engine in service

Hello; The idealized notion of electric power has merit. The best way it can work is to have what is called a point source of pollution. That being that whatever way the electricity is generated the emissions from, say a power plant, is in one spot and the hope is the pollution can better be controlled in one spot rather than in millions of vehicles. Thing is the ICE is so very much cleaner now than ever before.
Electric power plants can range from very clean to nasty depending on the fuel being used. I do not know how the average works out for all power plants, but as is already mentioned places such as India and China are running a lot of the nasty types.

There are two combustion engines which are pretty good. ICE can be run on hydrogen or one of the natural gases (Propane or natural gas).
Hydrogen is likely the cleaner and so much easier to come by. All you need is water. Among the problems is storage containers and the cost of getting it out of the water. Electrolysis would be the more likely to be used method, but that uses a lot of electricity. Hydrogen is the simplest atom so can be hard to keep in a container. The hydrogen would also have to be compressed to have enough to amount to many road miles.
Natural gas is some easier if you had a pipeline running to your house. Just a compression pump to squeeze enough into a high pressure container.
Propane is even easier as there are lots of propane sites around. I considered having a propane setup on a pickup some years ago. It would have been so I could run on propane or gasoline. just switch from one source to the other.

The big problem with the battery cars continues to be the range and how long it takes to recharge. Both are some better but not good enough. Even if these two issues are worked out I just do not see driving one myself.

But I have not addressed your idea. A big issue with combustion is getting the fuel to burn completely. A gasoline fueled engine is better than ever at this but I am still fairly sure around sixty percent of the energy winds up as heat. Not a bad thing in the winter. Some depends on the fuel being used. But if some one could come up with a super efficient way to burn a combustion fuel in an ICE that would great. I would not want 100% efficiency I think. 100% efficiency would mean there would not be any combustion sound is my guess.

For someone my age, 73, the end of available crude oil is not likely. For someone in their twenties I am not so sure. Even if political or other forces do not step in, crude oil is a finite resource. We will only be able to find and recover so much. Eventually amounts available will not be practical. On top of this there are products made from crude which are vital to our lifestyles. Medical plastics for example. Having alternative fuel/power sources around is not a bad idea. I am just not sure I want to be forced into a change. Cost and availability will eventually be enough reason to switch to some other fuel without being forced.
I like my LED lights for example and do not mind saving money while using them. Same sort of thing could push me to an electric car, but I am not sure they cost less to run and I would worry about range.

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[Balr14]

I have often observed that something that seems like a good idea on a limited scale, invariably has unintended consequences when it is adopted by the masses. There are always social, political, logistical and environmental impacts that were not expected. Social media is a good example. I won't be around when electric vehicles become the common means of transportation and I think I am grateful.

 

[FreePenguin]

So what happens if we run out of fuel? Lol I mean crude oil

 

[EFI]

So what happens if we run out of fuel? Lol I mean crude oil

We go back to walking or using horses, because even our electric cars won't run since a vast majority of the electricity produced today is using fossil fuels.

 

[sk47]

So what happens if we run out of fuel? Lol I mean crude oil

Hello; Technically we will not run out of oil so much as what remains will not be feasible to extract. Back around the early 2000 we were approaching that condition. Some advances in the way of extracting oil has enabled the removal of additional oil from old wells previously considered to be worked out. Even with the better techniques eventually oil reserves underground will be for practical purposes exhausted. More probably the output form wells will dwindle, becomming less and less.
However there are other sources of crude. The tar sands for example hold a massive amount of oil. Tar sand oil recovery is a nasty business. For that reason those who are pushing a move to electric cars are much against tar sand oil. They feel it is too much of an environmental impact in the process of digging it out and refining it.
Natural gas can be reconfigured into liquid oil. This process is already being done at some scale. Likely can be ramped up to produce more oil when crude prices go up.
There is some ability to make a fuel oil from plants as well.

Bottom line is crude oil has always been a finite resource which will be exhausted at some point. Running out of it is a natural result of using it. Thing is there are folks with an agenda who want to push the end of it's use sooner than would be natural. They cite pollution among their reasons. I am all for allowing folks who want to go electric to be able to do so. The early adopters will bear the burdens of trial and error. I am just not happy about being forced into it.

At some point I will not be able to afford to run an ICE of any real power and may make the change. As Blair14 points out, there are and will be unintended consequences.

 

[Stage_3]

So what happens if we run out of fuel? Lol I mean crude oil

We'll rely on foreign lands to charge us 85 bucks a barrel. lol

 

[Dave2013M3]

We'll rely on foreign lands to charge us 85 bucks a barrel. lol

Oil is $52 per barrel. Also we are now close to 90% energy independent. Now with a Biden administration and such (not being political just stating fact) this can change. The US currently actually is a net oil product exporter when you take in all petroleum products. Some good reading...US Oil independence

 

[Stage_3]

Oil is $52 per barrel. Also we are now close to 90% energy independent. Now with a Biden administration and such (not being political just stating fact) this can change.

I read ya loud and clear. Scary.
Fuel is already on the rise here in MA.

 

[Dave2013M3]

The issue I have with electric vehicles, especially in a state that has problems providing energy to its own citizens (California), now put more strain on the grid by adding millions of new electric cars.

 

[Dave2013M3]

I read ya loud and clear. Scary.
Fuel is already on the rise here in MA.

California has the most expensive fuel in the country, even more than Hawaii and they have to import all their fuel.

 

[sk47]

most expensive fuel in the country,

Hello; I do not think this is just a byproduct of all the expensive propositions they have enacted over the decades, even tho the massive spending projects are a part of the cost of living. From things I learn form a distance it figures to be part of the plan. Like a sin tax on tobacco perhaps. Make the cost of fuel high and many folks will not drive around so much. Those who are on a tight budget may be pushed into the hybrids to get the better mileage.
I do expect that among other things which will become more expensive in the next months and years, there will be substantial federal gasoline and maybe state fuel tax increases.

a state that has problems providing energy to its own citizens (California), now put more strain on the grid by adding millions of new electric cars.

Hello; yes this may turn out to be another feel good idea that is pleasant to envision but will be not so practical in the real world. The idea of everyone driving electric vehicles so the environment is saved sort of idea, but the power grid not being up to the task.

I know this will not be the same sort of comparison and is some out of date. Back in the 1960's thru the 1980's there was a company called National Electric Coil. They operated in Harlan County KY for a number of years. The company rebuilt the mining machines used in the underground mines of the area. Those continuous miners, shuttle cars and other equipment ran on big electric motors.
When the motors broke down they were rebuilt at the company. When still a young man in my early twenties I had a part time job as manager of a drive in movie theater which was located next to the National Coil plant. Both places on the bank of the Cumberland River.
One day the man who owned the theater walked me over to the Coil property next door to show me something. The company was pouring out the chemicals used to clean the motors directly onto the ground maybe two hundred yards from the river.
Some years later it was discovered that chemical waste was toxic. The area is now an EPA supersite in place in the area. Wells were contaminated in a large area. I lived maybe four miles away and was told my well was not affected. A water line was run into the area and every body had to stop using the wells, including my own. I knew a lot of folks who lived in the Dayhoit area, some of whom got sick. I did drink some of the water from the Drive in theater well, but not a lot. We used well water to feed into the soda machines.
I never went into the Supersite area as it was fenced off. I was told several deep wells had been drilled by the EPA and the water was being pumped up high into the air for some reason. I guess this was somehow supposed to help clean the water. By the way the Cumberland River starts in Harlan County and flows for a long way. Some of that chemical waste had to have washed into the river over time.

Now I am not saying the electric motors from vehicles will be handled the same way. I hope lessons have been learned. I do figure in the initial production of motors and batteries there will be some environmental impact. I also figure the batteries and motors will be recycled and some potential for environmental impact may be possible. In a more perfect world these things will be handled better than the example I have used. OK, What is my point?

I sometimes get the impression people who were quick to buy hybrids and all electric cars may think all is good. It has not been cost effective so far in terms of cost of ownership per miles driven is my take. I guess they get to virtue signal and that may be worth a lot in some ways.

 

[wilkinda65]

I don't get this whole electrification of all transportation. It's like all these people think electricity is free, comes out of thin air and it's creation has 0 pollution. Until we can create electricity safely, cleanly and efficiently, this will all just be a transition to a different type of pollution. Instead of it coming of out the tailpipes, the same pollution is going to come out of dirty power plants, dirty mines and dirty battery plants.

My bet is that in 20-30 years there will be a whole slew of new environmentalists out there bitching about how dirty and dangerous (in the case of nuclear) the electricity and batteries are.

Being in the power industry I can assure you most power plants are not "dirty" in the USA. Additionally, the EPA is enforcing stricter emissions standards that are being phased in. What is funny is that people fail to realize what is done to the earth to get the materials harvested to make those batteries. The technology of the batteries is where the "Win-Win" will come from. right now its still power plants operating on either nuclear or fossil fuels creating that electricity to charge that electric car.

 

[EFI]

Being in the power industry I can assure you most power plants are not "dirty" in the USA.

I'm not saying they are dirty perse, but when you are burning a fossil fuel to get electricity it's not any cleaner than burning another fossil fuel for internal combustion engines.

Climate change is not just in the US, climate change is in the whole world. So just because the US has clean energy doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme until the rest of the world also catches up.

 

[wilkinda65]

I'm not saying they are dirty perse, but when you are burning a fossil fuel to get electricity it's not any cleaner than burning another fossil fuel for internal combustion engines.

Climate change is not just in the US, climate change is in the whole world. So just because the US has clean energy doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme until the rest of the world also catches up.

I understand. Our government actually subsidizes foreign governments to put low emissions hardware on their gas turbines or scrubbers on their HRSGs to emit low emissions. Japan for instance paid General Electric to put the best low emissions combustion hardware on the gas turbines we installed in South Korea....why? Because the dirty air from the South Korean plants goes over Japan.

 

[EFI]

I understand. Our government actually subsidizes foreign governments to put low emissions hardware on their gas turbines or scrubbers on their HRSGs to emit low emissions. Japan for instance paid General Electric to put the best low emissions combustion hardware on the gas turbines we installed in South Korea....why? Because the dirty air from the South Korean plants goes over Japan.

That's fair, but it still doesn't address the main issue in that there are "emissions" being generated to generate electricity aka electric vehicles ain't "clean".

Governments are also putting alot of subsidies and restrictions in reducing emissions for ICE engines.

That's what bugs me...it seems people think that electricity is clean magic while ICE engines are dirty, nasty polluting devices.

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