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Is worth the $ to go from a gen 2 whipple to a gen 4.

Jackson1320

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Do you mean so the timing will self adjust with the race fuel. Does anyone know how much timing the whipple tune allows timing to advance with better fuel and if it is possible for the tuner to increase that limit. Ilike that idea.
It can add up to 10deg on every tune I have seen but it depends on load/rpm. Looks something like this. But the tune has its target timing then it has a max timing. So if timing is at 16deg and max is 20deg then even if you tell the knock sensors that they can add 10deg it will stop at 20

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Sean709

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Thank you all for the help. I think I will just have the tune done and now have a good idea of what I hope to get done with it. I think I will have him do a tune for the 93 with boostane and leave some room for knock advance if I want to run a full race gas. I am gonna ask about a meth kit, I have a feeling some tuners wont want to mess with that. Also I only have the whipple flare tool that was given with the along with the little SD storage thing. I mentioned what he would like me to get to tune it and he said he can just flash it but I rather have something married to the car so I can monitor what is going on. Since a blank n gauge may be tough to get I am thinking of getting a sct x4 or bdx. I dont like the idea of a tune flashed into it and I am 100 percent in the dark with what is actually going on with the car and tuner is a few hours drive. I think i should just pick up a used x4 on ebay at least. So for the hell of it to be ready I just put in fresh ngk 6510s gapped @.028 . Adjusted the tensioner so it is about 80 % open as in whipples directions. Fresh redline 75/110 in the rear end and MTL in trans. I changed oil less than 500 miles ago to RP 5/30 but may put 5/50 before dyno. Also bought a gripteck pulley in the same 3.625 even though it probably doesnt need it for that size but I rather have the overkill and know it will not slip .
 

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No one mentioned this, unless I missed it. But if I understand correctly you are on a 3.625 pulley? Why not go down to 3.5? The Gen 2 stage 2 Whipple came with 3 pulleys, 3.75, 3.625 and a 3.5. The kit is listed as a 825 crank hp.
 
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Sean709

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No one mentioned this, unless I missed it. But if I understand correctly you are on a 3.625 pulley? Why not go down to 3.5? The Gen 2 stage 2 Whipple came with 3 pulleys, 3.75, 3.625 and a 3.5. The kit is listed as a 825 crank hp.
The kit came with those 3 pulleys back then?. I just see on most threads unless its actual race fuel or of course e 85 that most only go down to a 3.625. Anyone running a 3.5 with just 93 and octane booster?.
 

Jordan @ Lethal

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If you're looking to go up in the Whipple world, I'd honestly just jump straight to the new gen equipment. The Gen 5 3.0 unit makes nearly 100 extra hp at the same amount of boost compared to the gen 4. The new stuff is a total redesign and a substantial one at that. Even if you aren't trying to reach for the stars with hp (which this little baddie can) its just super efficient and makes gobs of power without trying hard. You could technically have your gen 2 rebuilt with gen 4 internals and pretty much have a gen 4. Not possible with gen 5 as it's such a departure from the previous gens. Shoot me a message when/if you decide to get another Whipple :muscle:

https://www.lethalperformance.com/s...ford-mustang-gt/supercharger-upgrades/whipple
 

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Sean709

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If you're looking to go up in the Whipple world, I'd honestly just jump straight to the new gen equipment. The Gen 5 3.0 unit makes nearly 100 extra hp at the same amount of boost compared to the gen 4. The new stuff is a total redesign and a substantial one at that. Even if you aren't trying to reach for the stars with hp (which this little baddie can) its just super efficient and makes gobs of power without trying hard. You could technically have your gen 2 rebuilt with gen 4 internals and pretty much have a gen 4. Not possible with gen 5 as it's such a departure from the previous gens. Shoot me a message when/if you decide to get another Whipple :muscle:

https://www.lethalperformance.com/s...ford-mustang-gt/supercharger-upgrades/whipple
What I dont understand is all the claims of hp gains with each new generation. As the old gen 2 stage 2 was claimed 825hp at the crank. Going by the claims of increases per gen by now a gen 5 3.0 stage 2 should be 1000 plus hp at the crank on 91 octane it seems. Whipple even had listed gains of 30 to 150hp claim going from gen 2 to 3. I'm sure a gen 5 3.0 stage 2 makes a good bit more steam and with e 85 and alot more pulley on a built motor will make way more power but on a basic 91 or 93 octane set up what are we looking at?
 

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One of the Whipple guys here in the forum had his car on the dyno as he upgraded his whipples. Dyno gains just didn’t seem to be there.

then on the flip side, whitedevil here on the forum gained about 50whp from a gen 2 to gen 3. Not sure if anything else changed
 
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onlyturbo

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Guys, the confusion here is the following. The Gen 2 Whipple is capable of producing north of 1000 hp on the Coyote motors I believe, the new gen 5 maybe 1200 capable. But all that needs to have all the supporting mods for a safe healthy engine, ie e85, or high octain race fuel, to minimize the chance of detonation.

So if your goal is 1200 hp, then go to gen 5, but you would need to further mode the car, like fuel system, better cooling, and more stable fuel as discussed above.

But, the Gen 2 can get you 1000 hp with same maxed out modes above.

In short the Gen 5 can definitely get more hp, but your gen 2 is not maxed out yet.

This is from my understanding, please do your own research to verify, talk to a known tuner, they will know all the details for sure...
 
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Sean709

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Guys, the confusion here is the following. The Gen 2 Whipple is capable of producing north of 1000 hp on the Coyote motors I believe, the new gen 5 maybe 1200 capable. But all that needs to have all the supporting mods for a safe healthy engine, ie e85, or high octain race fuel, to minimize the chance of detonation.

So if your goal is 1200 hp, then go to gen 5, but you would need to further mode the car, like fuel system, better cooling, and more stable fuel as discussed above.

But, the Gen 2 can get you 1000 hp with same maxed out modes above.

In short the Gen 5 can definitely get more hp, but your gen 2 is not maxed out yet.

This is from my understanding, please do your own research to verify, talk to a known tuner, they will know all the details for sure...
Well said. BTW what is the gen 5 stage 2 claimed hp at the crank or rear wheel out of the box with no other mods and using the whipple tune. Also remember the 18s and up start off with a point more compression and 35 more crank hp is it?. I always saw the 825hp crank hp from way back on the gen 2 but for some reason I havnt seen the hp claims for the gen 5 stage 2 from whipple or American muscle videos for it etc.
 
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Sean709

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Well said. BTW what is the gen 5 stage 2 claimed hp at the crank or rear wheel out of the box with no other mods and using the whipple tune. Also remember the 18s and up start off with a point more compression and 35 more crank hp is it?. I always saw the 825hp crank hp from way back on the gen 2 but for some reason I havnt seen the hp claims for the gen 5 stage 2 from whipple or American muscle videos for it etc.
So I decided to just do a custom tune with what I have. I wanted to snag a n gauge before they are all gone. I just ordered and went with PBD.
 

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onlyturbo

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Good choice from what I read and hear! I am still on the Whipple tune, same setup as you on a 2015. For me, it is plenty of power. 1st and 2nd gears are useless with 305s Nitto 5s in rear, with 3.75 pully. I can't imagine what more power will do to the rear wheels...my car also has the Viking crusaders in rear, and all the rest of the rear end supporting modes.

Let me know how the car feels with the new tune, and if it is manageable in the street... I read you had a 1600hp car, so you probably have much more experience with high hp cars than me...
 

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There is some gain involved in moving up to a Gen 3 or 4. I saw a decent gain myself. With no other changes, same fuel system, same pulley, exhaust, etc. It was on the same dyno but months later. I am also on E85 with a 3.5 pulley. Not sure how that effects it than vs a pump gas car. Worth it is the question. Spending 4k plus for a new head unit doesn't seem worth it for the power gained. What I did was put the money up front and bought a complete Gen 3 kit(brand new kit but on the used market). Then swapped the head units and sold my Gen 2 as a complete kit. That way it only ended up costing me a few hundred for the swap. So I am very happy with upgrading.

If I hadn't had found that Gen 3 kit in the classifieds I would have waited for Black Friday and bought a Gen 4 tuner kid and done the same exact thing. Much cheaper in the end than just the head unit purchase.
 
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Sean709

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Good choice from what I read and hear! I am still on the Whipple tune, same setup as you on a 2015. For me, it is plenty of power. 1st and 2nd gears are useless with 305s Nitto 5s in rear, with 3.75 pully. I can't imagine what more power will do to the rear wheels...my car also has the Viking crusaders in rear, and all the rest of the rear end supporting modes.

Let me know how the car feels with the new tune, and if it is manageable in the street... I read you had a 1600hp car, so you probably have much more experience with high hp cars than me...
Good info . I'm on a 3.625. So I'm gonna do a initial pull with the same tank of 93 with 2 oz per gallon of boostane. Then no changes but the pbd tune and irs getting dialed in remote so we will see with revisions and all around what it's worth. I put on a same size grip teck pulley for the hell of it as it was on sale. Fresh 6510s @ .028 fresh redline in the rear and mt82 etc. I just purchased the tune on Thursday straight from PBD and the box showed up here in CT today. That's some fast shipping huh. Local dyno is touching base with pbd and said probably not till early next month. Also this whipple tune never had any updated revisions as a 2016 flash was the only thing on the flare tool and confirmed with whipple. It made 709/ 523 sae with the whipple tune. My guess is 746/546???.
 
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Sean709

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There is some gain involved in moving up to a Gen 3 or 4. I saw a decent gain myself. With no other changes, same fuel system, same pulley, exhaust, etc. It was on the same dyno but months later. I am also on E85 with a 3.5 pulley. Not sure how that effects it than vs a pump gas car. Worth it is the question. Spending 4k plus for a new head unit doesn't seem worth it for the power gained. What I did was put the money up front and bought a complete Gen 3 kit(brand new kit but on the used market). Then swapped the head units and sold my Gen 2 as a complete kit. That way it only ended up costing me a few hundred for the swap. So I am very happy with upgrading.

If I hadn't had found that Gen 3 kit in the classifieds I would have waited for Black Friday and bought a Gen 4 tuner kid and done the same exact thing. Much cheaper in the end than just the head unit purchase.
Like someone else mentioned I could probably pick up more with just a meth kit but if I ran across a gen 4 used for a good price 8 would snag it and sell the gen 2. I guess a 2 to 4 will make at least 30 or so but your gonna have another what? 1 to 1.5 lbs more boost so that tougher on pump gas. I think mine made 13.6 pounds already with Arh system with cats. So that would be close to 15 pounds?.
 

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Like someone else mentioned I could probably pick up more with just a meth kit but if I ran across a gen 4 used for a good price 8 would snag it and sell the gen 2. I guess a 2 to 4 will make at least 30 or so but your gonna have another what? 1 to 1.5 lbs more boost so that tougher on pump gas. I think mine made 13.6 pounds already with Arh system with cats. So that would be close to 15 pounds?.
Yes I picked up 1 psi of boost on the same pulley from a Gen 2 to Gen 3.
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