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Is this a Mustang dressed up as a Challenger, or a Challenger borrowed by a Mustang driver?

Veteran

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Panic can and sometimes will cause people to simply 'freeze' at the controls. They may not even know what they need to be doing.


I'm with GreenS550 here, in that having a few years of snow driving early in one's driving life is incredibly valuable. All the way from driving in the snow/slush to driving in the wet to putting the car at its limits on the track in the dry. But you need to start "at the bottom" where loss of tire grip happens at the lowest speeds

The scary thing here is that in today's world of nannified cars it's somewhat harder to even get that experience - and without that experience you're going to be worse off when you either turn them off to show off, or when the situation gets out past what the nannies can save you from.


Norm
i think the whole nanny situation you talk about hits it on the head.
As a youngster I remember ā€œstealingā€ my dads car and learning how to hang the back out.
Stupid as it was, it was a basis for learning car control.

Many youngsters of today really donā€™t have the advantage of learning to drive analog cars .
Would it be a good idea to make a advanced drivers course a necessity to obtain a drivers?
Perhaps it will save a lot of lives and bent metal .
Just a thought.
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GreenS550

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What is interesting is that in a Mustang with Advancetrac and traction control, the car wouldn't have done that. It would have done its nanny stuff. Besides being a poor driver he also didn't have the wits about him to realize that he was too inexperienced to pull stuff like that.

On my supercharged '18, even though I am a fairly experienced drag race driver and spirited driver on the road courses, I leave the advancetrac on when I'm fooling around. Only off for serious stuff which is usually at the track somewhere.
 

ShadesOfBloo

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I donā€™t understand how these drivers lose control so easily. I drive my GT350 aggressive sometimes and never once came close to loosing control. Even with all the nannies turned off.
A GT350 seems to have the right tires for its power. I always had the impression Ford meant for you to turn off the nannies one day.

A Challenger, even with "widebody" fender flares, only gets tires up to a 305mm tread width. That size seems to be good for a 3700 lb Mustang, not so good for controlling 700hp or cornering with a 4500 lb car.

So, idiotface has probably turned off the traction control to show off, the rear tires lose traction, and the car gets out of shape.
Then, wherever the car was pointed when the last tire loses traction, the 4500 lb bloatmobile is just going to keep going that way. šŸ’„
 
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ShadesOfBloo

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I wonder if part of the problem is that some of these folks grew up driving only FWD. Then they transition into RWD (with lots of H.P.) and don't have a feel for it.
I've seen that firsthand, with a friend that grew up driving 4-banger Hondas (really missed his Prelude he left behind in New Zealand) then one day got a 1989 Supra Turbo and took that to an autocross school.

When the tail got loose, he had a reflex to hold the gas pedal down and expect the power to pull the car straight. Works great with a (weak) FWD, even with an open diff, apparently. It took him MANY spins in the slalom to break that habit in the Supra, and in the process his car got nicknamed the Turbo Merry-Go-Round.

Also, he kept wanting to race me (and my stock 240SX) and I declined until one day he challenged me in the rain. That's how he learned that putting his foot to the floor didn't work in rain.
"Yeah, you have 100hp more than me, and what did that get you? šŸ˜›"

...So, he learned that he needed to learn, and thankfully didn't get hurt in the process. After lots of driving it in the rain, donuts in empty parking lots, and "hooning" on dirt roads (I learned that word from him, circa 2002), my Kiwi friend had appreciable skilz with his Supra.

...Then he wrecked it, anyway, and it's anybody's guess whether he got overconfident or an old FWD habit just came up at the wrong moment.
 

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Vlad Soare

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When the tail got loose, he had a reflex to hold the gas pedal down and expect the power to pull the car straight. Works great with a (weak) FWD, even with an open diff, apparently.
Indeed, that's the standard recovery procedure from oversteer in a FWD. Look where you want to go, turn the steering wheel towards that, and mash the throttle. It does work very well. The traction control must be off, obviously, otherwise all bets are off.
It's also a lot of fun to do it on purpose. Doing a Scandinavian flick on corner entry, then stepping hard on the gas as soon as the car is facing the right way, is arguably as much fun as it is to drift an RWD.
 
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Jmtoast

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It comes down to tires and of course the nannies. My Car is downright terrifying without warm R rates tires if itā€™s on a 20 inch rim. I donā€™t care what summer tire I throw on it. Has to be a R rated drag radial or track tire or I donā€™t turn off the nannies. These guys put power mods on a car with no sidewall and inadequate tires for the power level then turn the nannies off so they can burn rubber. Just dumb
 

Norm Peterson

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There are a few rational youtube videos on the subject. We are in a time where very powerful cars are readily accessible at great pricing. Many of these folks buying in don't have the experience or muscle memory necessary and end up screwing up.

I spent my childhood mud riding in trucks and dirt/mud racing go karts. When the ass of the car goes one way, my mind corrects the steering and other things without thinking about it. If you don't have experience being out of control, you should not buy any of these cars IMO (GT, SS, Dodge 392, Hellcat, etc...). Even with my youth experience, I took this car easy and worked my way into feeling what it could do. It is a lot of power and you can't just go doing silly shit whenever you want.

On top of all of that, understand tire warmth, tire pressure, road conditions, and stop looking at insta-twitter on your iphone and pay attention.
This ^^^. All of it.

Learn to walk before you try to run . . . Get your corrections to be near-instinctive and accurate - and understand that you want to be staying ahead of the snap-spin the other way once you 'catch' the first spin direction.

There's been a couple of times at wet track days where a similar path to performance car driving absolutely paid off. And I think a few times on the street, to be completely honest here.


Norm
 

BigRed550

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Not sure I necessarily agree with that.
It's an illegal event and you are attending, basically encouraging and supporting an illegal activity. Illegal gambling, dog fights, cock fights, lots of examples where being a spectator will get you arrested. Why not street racing?
And it's not a new thing. I once received a ticket for transporting a set of racing slicks. The race was over but we got stopped leaving. It was way out in corn country at about 2am. The cop couldn't prove we were doing anything but a couple of fast cars and a truck or two with tires, soo... Yes, young and stupid, not participating, really was just watching, but got the ticket nonetheless.
Street racing would require a secondary vehicle. This was just an asshole driving like a dick which are traffic infractions not even on the same level as the crimes you mentioned. This was a coffee and cars meeting which is not illegal by the way. So no the spectators are not committing a crime. Just a driver making a poor choice.

Your youth incident is an illegal stop and itā€™s not illegal to have tires in a truck. That stuff would not fly now days especially with all the cameras.
 

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Schwerin

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I went from a 160hp escort to a 2003 mach1. First time driving it was home in the rain. Going for ma stop just a little gas started to give me spin. Right then was when I realized I needed to get more accurate with throttle control.
 

K4fxd

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Growing up with big blocks that had Holley carbs, big strong return springs and snow teaches throttle control.
 

XS

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I live right by where this happened. Par for the course on a normal weekend morning..... Look up Copar Denver, you have your pick of crashed Mopars to choose from. I was on the site last week and there were two crunched S550s, one Camaro, and three Hellcats, several R/Ts, and several V6 Challengers. It's been like this around here for years. A Hellcat lost it and almost took out a crowd at the last cars and coffee I was at in Parker, CO. When the Mustang meme started I was a bit confused because around here that's not the car I was seeing biffing it on a weekly basis...
 

ORRadtech

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Street racing would require a secondary vehicle. This was just an asshole driving like a dick which are traffic infractions not even on the same level as the crimes you mentioned. This was a coffee and cars meeting which is not illegal by the way. So no the spectators are not committing a crime. Just a driver making a poor choice.

Your youth incident is an illegal stop and itā€™s not illegal to have tires in a truck. That stuff would not fly now days especially with all the cameras.
The whole spectators being arrested was a comment on the street racing thats been happening here in Atlanta. I agree, people leaving an event and happening to witness a fool wrecking would not have been doing anything illegal.

Lots and lots of things were different in the late 60s and early 70s.... Including youth attitudes towards the police. Back then my teen age self never would have even thought questioning them would even be an option.
 

Jmtoast

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This ^^^. All of it.

Learn to walk before you try to run . . . Get your corrections to be near-instinctive and accurate - and understand that you want to be staying ahead of the snap-spin the other way once you 'catch' the first spin direction.

There's been a couple of times at wet track days where a similar path to performance car driving absolutely paid off. And I think a few times on the street, to be completely honest here.


Norm
thatā€™s addorable.. you southern boys and your driving courses to learn how not to wreck when you lose control. We learn that by the time we 16 and a half up here in the deep freeze.
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