Is there any truth to this? (Ported CJ/Cams vs FI Numbers)

[Biggness]

Was reading some YouTube comments about a Gen 3 with a ported Cobrajet, single blade TB, and Stage 2 Comp Cams that put down 550whp, and came across this one.

Is there any truth to this?

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[80FoxCoupe]

What exactly are you asking here?

 

[Biggness]

What exactly are you asking here?

My apologies for the confusion. Basically asking about the last sentence.

"Plenty of 550ish wheel na coyotes putting the hurt on 700-800 boosted coyotes. Even from rolls."

I think he's talking about how the CJ/Cams setup has power come on earlier and stay/slowly climb with the rpm's while the 10r80 stays in that power band compared to a boosted application that may make more peak power but have less range of comparable power, which yields a loss for the boosted car on the street.

That's my take away and kind of makes sense, but was wanting other's thoughts on it as well.

 

[K4fxd]

It's area under the curve.

I do believe the manifold shoot outs are rigged to help a certain manifold. Think about it except for the CJ why wouldn't Ford put the best manifold on the flag ship cars.

Take your cams and CJ set up and then add a blower. Get in, shut up and hang on.

 

[2022 Mach 1]

One look at a whipple dyno sheet will show you the table flat torque curve provided. Somewhere in an article Dustin Whipple talked about how a whipple will continue to make power and is fuel and rpm limited before the blower would run out of steam.

550 hp is a whole lot easier to put to the ground than a 700+ car. The available traction would be most likely the differentiator.

I could be wrong, look forward to others feedback.

 

[Biggness]

One look at a whipple dyno sheet will show you the table flat torque curve provided. Somewhere in an article Dustin Whipple talked about how a whipple will continue to make power and is fuel and rpm limited before the blower would run out of steam.

550 hp is a whole lot easier to put to the ground than a 700+ car. The available traction would be most likely the differentiator.

I could be wrong, look forward to others feedback.

That's a really good point about being able to put it to the ground.

 

[Red5.0]

Gen 3 n/a coyotes making 500-550whp are capable of keeping up and or beating 700whp coyote but the only way that will happen is with major weight reduction fully gutted and drag setup and the boosted coyote being full weight which is what people forget to consider.

 

[Biggness]

It's area under the curve.

I do believe the manifold shoot outs are rigged to help a certain manifold. Think about it except for the CJ why wouldn't Ford put the best manifold on the flag ship cars.

Take your cams and CJ set up and then add a blower. Get in, shut up and hang on.

What do you mean by "it's area under the curve?" Just trying to learn more so please excuse my ignorance.

 

[Biggness]

Gen 3 n/a coyotes making 500-550whp are capable of keeping up and or beating 700whp coyote but the only way that will happen is with major weight reduction fully gutted and drag setup and the boosted coyote being full weight which is what people forget to consider.

Good point.

If general rule of thumb is 0.1 shaved off for every 100lbs lost, how much weight reduction would need to take place for the N/A car to consistently beat the boosted car?

 

[bauern]

What do you mean by "it's area under the curve?" Just trying to learn more so please excuse my ignorance.

Take your standard dyno graph for HP, RPM on the base (x axis) HP on the vertical (y axis). Draw a vertical line from a point on the plotted HP curve to the x-axis, say 3500 RPM and another at say 7500 RPM. Shade in the space you've bordered with the two vertical lines, the x-axis and the HP curve and the shaded space is the "area under the curve".

 

[Red5.0]

Good point.

If general rule of thumb is 0.1 shaved off for every 100lbs lost, how much weight reduction would need to take place for the N/A car to consistently beat the boosted car?

When I had my gen 2 with roush blower stage 2 auto was making roughly 620 whp, I raced a gen 3 fbo gutted out, he only had the driver seat in the interior and no exhaust and drag setup and we were neck to neck from the hit to top end. All I did was just go stage 3 and make about 640whp next time around and he couldn’t keep up anymore lol. That’s the thing with boost, all you have to do is turn it up. I was full weight with subwoofer and my cooled seats with 20” wheels on drag radial on pump 93 riding in comfort.

 

[Torinate]

Could it happen? Sure. Does it happen? Occasionally. Is this the norm? Nope, not even close. Assuming both drivers are of equal skill and cars are prepped similarly. Now, a supercharged car on hard tires (aka non-drag radials etc) vs the fbo with drag tires is a different story. When that extra 150 whp goes up in smoke and the fbo hooks it’s a completely different story. But assuming the blown car has proper tires as well, that extra 150 whp will put a whooping on the fbo unless the fbo car is gutted and WAY lighter. Never understood the guys with 700+ whp running on hard tires trying to achieve great times - even on rolls. Even with aired down drag radials that are cold they love to spin below 50-60 mph. By that time it’s too late and the race was over long ago.

 

[SolarFlare]

LOL @ youtube racers.

 

[PC_GUARD]

Na coyote at any price, is a joke compared to any sort of FI coyote. Full tilt fbo na, shifting 9k rpms at cut weight, will be gapped by a 10lb boost 93 setup all day everyday, regardless of boost method.

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