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Interesting: EV Car MPG Cost versus Regular Gasoline Engine MPG Cost Per 100 Miles
xl_cheese
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My hunch is that the guy who wrote that article has some sort of political bias against EV cars.
Here's what I found on the breakdown of the source of energy in the US. Seems like we're getting closer and closer to cleaner power and more infrastructure comes online.
Here's what I found on the breakdown of the source of energy in the US. Seems like we're getting closer and closer to cleaner power and more infrastructure comes online.
| Energy source | Billion kWh | Share of total |
|---|---|---|
| Total - all sources | 4,108 | |
| Fossil fuels (total) | 2,508 | 61.0% |
| Natural gas | 1,579 | 38.4% |
| Coal | 898 | 21.9% |
| Petroleum (total) | 19 | 0.5% |
| Petroleum liquids | 12 | 0.3% |
| Petroleum coke | 8 | 0.2% |
| Other gases3 | 11 | 0.3% |
| Nuclear | 778 | 18.9% |
| Renewables (total) | 815 | 19.8% |
| Wind | 378 | 9.2% |
| Hydropower | 252 | 6.1% |
| Solar (total) | 115 | 2.8% |
| Photovoltaic | 112 | 2.7% |
| Solar thermal | 3 | 0.1% |
| Biomass (total) | 54 | 1.3% |
| Wood | 36 | 0.9% |
| Landfill gas | 9 | 0.2% |
| Municipal solid waste (biogenic) | 6 | 0.1% |
| Other biomass waste | 2 | 0.1% |
| Geothermal | 16 | 0.4% |
| Pumped storage hydropower4 | -5 | -0.1% |
| Other sources5 | 12 | 0.3% |
stars_fan
Well-Known Member
The math is off for the EV.
My model 3 performance gets about 3.4 miles per kilowatt. 100/3.4 is 29.4kw. Electricity is between .09 and .11 at my house. At the high end it would be $3.23 per 100 miles low end $2.64
Hate them all you want but don’t spread fud
My model 3 performance gets about 3.4 miles per kilowatt. 100/3.4 is 29.4kw. Electricity is between .09 and .11 at my house. At the high end it would be $3.23 per 100 miles low end $2.64
Hate them all you want but don’t spread fud
ice445
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If you use the average cost at an EE or other public charging station, then yeah, it's comparable. But if you charge at your home, it's not even close. EV wins by a mile on cost to run.
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OP
DougS550
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I as well as most people want American and other countries around the world to invest in Clean, and safe Nuclear fusion power plants. They have come a long way with it But theirs no money in nuclear power plants for businesses who are making billions off of wind mills, solar panels, wave generators, electric batteries etc. Won't allow it.
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Thomas
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Fusion power is still science fiction outside of a lab. Did you mean fission? The renewable industry isn't quite that powerful. Many of the companies are not US based either. However, the cost is a big component to large reactors. If you don't have government spending to do it, then convincing a private company to agree to fund a plant with a 15 yr ROI is not easy assuming they even want to be in the business at all.
That being said, the main hurdles to Nuclear in the US are public perception (a result of many years ) and refining capacity. We can't actually refine enough Uranium to make it viable at the scale we need to it be for now.
Regarding EVs, a very quick though experiment can show the insanity of trying to actually mandate EVs. It will help filter the BS out of public statements very quickly.
As stated in this thread, 100mi of EV usage is about 30kWh. There are just under 300million registered cars on the road during a normal day.
If you convert that to EVs, that is 9 TWh of generation JUST for EVs. The current US generating capacity is estimated at 4.12 TWh and we don't even use all of it since we have to have margin for emergencies.
So JUST the EV mandate alone, would require the US to double energy generation in just 10 years (if you actually buy into the 2035 EV hilarity).
Not to mention the immense environmental impact from all the mining and production needed to make them AND doubling the infrastructure.
Buy EVs for performance. Not to be "green". Much simpler to reduce consumption, waste and put more thought into what and why you are buying something. Simpler....but hard for many I suspect as it requires genuine change.
ice445
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While I agree it's not very green to just build hundreds of millions more things to replace existing ones, the math isn't as simple as just adding up the total theoretical peak demand. Most people do not drive 100 miles per day, so their energy usage won't be nearly that high. There's also the factor of the tradeoffs of phasing out gas cars and their requisite logistical network. It takes a lot of diesel to deliver gas to customers, as well as a lot of electricity to pump and refine crude out of the ground. Refineries do use a lot of their base stock waste to create their own electricity to not completely rely on the main grid, but it's still a sizable amount. While refineries won't just close with a lack of gas cars (too many other useful byproducts), the energy demands of the oil network will still be diminished significantly.
My point boils down to the fact the energy use is still baked in as the cost of modern living, we'll just need more electricity generation to replace energy currently provided by combustion. In the end I wouldn't be surprised if the efficiency gains of electric cars and the electric transportation network make a net gain over our current system, despite having to bring tons of new generation online. I obviously don't think it's going to happen by 2035 even if it does happen, but if EV's 10 years from now are as much improved as they are compared to 10 years ago, it will be a compelling purchase for many assuming costs are kept in check.
Ozcraig
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I think we all know that to EV or not to EV is not about energy use or saving the world. It is a partisan political shit fight, like almost every other important issue in America. Both sides of the massive divide will simply not budge, cos the other side thinks it is a good idea. Even if it is a great idea, nah, not budging. The pot is slowly coming to the boil and the frogs are arguing amongst themselves.
Cory S
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All depends where you are. Our KWH rate in New England is $.18-.23/KWH. It's less cost to commute in my 40mpg Corolla than an EV will ever match. I can go 430 miles without having to plug it in as well. So about 8 days of commuting. We have 5-6 months of winter as well. Couple the energy demand and continuing rising costs of electricity, people have been trading in their EV's for gasoline vehicles again.
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Dark Side
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Can you cite your source? I'm curious about a few things here. There's a couple of things that look a bit odd.
kz
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This is yet another thread about an yet another click bait article based on the same study that included time you spend driving to charging station, time you take to connect plug to your EV and some more nonsense into EV costs. Go look at the study and also think about why it has been done by a consulting company (or rather who could possibly pay for it - since they sure as hell didn't do it for free).
https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.c...world-cost-of-fueling-evs-and-ice-vehicles-2/
^^^^ here's the actual study. It sure had the effect it was supposed to as bunch of people now trumphiantly post how EVs are more expensive to refuel (nevermind they're better than ICE cars at just about everything cars are supposed to be) without ever reading the details.
https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.c...world-cost-of-fueling-evs-and-ice-vehicles-2/
^^^^ here's the actual study. It sure had the effect it was supposed to as bunch of people now trumphiantly post how EVs are more expensive to refuel (nevermind they're better than ICE cars at just about everything cars are supposed to be) without ever reading the details.
Magnetic Stang
Well-Known Member
There's more to consider than just the cost to charge an EV or fuel an ICE vehicle. The whole cost of ownership. A lot people can't even afford to go out and buy an EV unless they buy the smallest oldest thing on the market. Which for a young family with kids that probably wouldn't work for their needs. In most cases it's cheaper to put gas in a paid off vehicle than to buy an EV and have a payment. There's a lot of cool EV's out there and they fit into some people's lifestyle but EV's aren't for everyone no matter how many studies they can come up with.
xl_cheese
Active Member
Dark Side
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Thanks.
So here's my issues with those numbers. Besides being off by 187 Billion KWH, it's stated as NET usage (which makes more sense than stating GROSS) but my problem is that it apparently doesn't take into account the forms of power required to service/maintain the various "green" plants.
Solar farms and batteries for instance exert a HUGE ecological toll. Strip mining to extract the various precious metals, refining and transport of said metals, so forth and so on are a cost that most don't care to understand.
Hell, look at the limited life of solar panels and the amount that aren't being recycled which just adds to the problem.
Green energy is being sold as a cure all and that's a flat out lie.
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