If you designed a Mustang, what dimensions (l x w x h) you would have?

[NoVaGT]

I'd suggest adding lightness.

Remove 1000 pounds from the car by making out of 100% carbon-fiber. Including the seat frames, suspension arms, dash, just as much as possible.

Might jack the price up a bit, tho.

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[jake_zx2]

Congratulations. You just built a sectioned and lightly channeled Mach E, minus the 'E' part.


Norm

Ah yes, giving a Mustang a more sporty appearance and shrinking it down makes it... a crossover?

Well aint that just about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard?

That's a BMW sedan, with an intentionally more 'upright' appearance than belongs on a Mustang.


Norm

Ah yes, BMW has never made a fastback coupe! Oh wait...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Ah yes, giving a Mustang a more sporty appearance and shrinking it down makes it... a crossover?

You can't just think about the numbers. You have to picture what they do in terms of proportions, which is what you actually see when you look at things.

Chopping down the overhangs is one of the things that does push a sedan or coupe toward CUV-ness, at least visually. Gives an appearance better described as 'stubby' as opposed to 'graceful'. The Mach E fits 10" more wheelbase into 2" less length than the S550.

Ah yes, BMW has never made a fastback coupe! Oh wait...

It's still a more upright car than the Mustang, being slightly taller on a slightly shorter wheelbase. Between being about an inch taller than the S550 and with slightly less ground clearance, and shorter by a whole foot but only an inch or so less wheelbase, it's definitely 'chunkier' than the S550. Definitely stubbier forward of the front wheels.

Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

Chopping down the overhangs is one of the things that does push a sedan or coupe toward CUV-ness, at least visually. Gives an appearance better described as 'stubby' as opposed to 'graceful'. The Mach E fits 10" more wheelbase into 2" less length than the S550.

What? This has to be a joke

A heightened roofline and a tall ride height is what gives a CUV appearance, nothing more. Short overhangs are primarily for performance cars, thus German coupes being only a couple inches shorter in wheelbase, yet being nearly a foot shorter in overall length. Making the Mustang look more sporty IN NO WAY makes it look more like a crossover

It's still a more upright car than the Mustang, being slightly taller on a slightly shorter wheelbase. Between being about an inch taller than the S550 and with slightly less ground clearance, and shorter by a whole foot but only an inch or so less wheelbase, it's definitely 'chunkier' than the S550. Definitely stubbier forward of the front wheels.

Norm

Ah yes, pick a completely different car than the one we’re even talking about

The car that this conversation is ACTUALLY aimed at is the BMW 4 series... same length as the Mustang, same height, slightly narrower... yet has an additional 5” in wheelbase, meaning they essentially did away with 5” of overhang against the Mustang. However, they still retained a fastback coupe appearance (which, according to you, is IMPOSSIBLE to do with shorter overhangs), still have a long-hood-short-deck appearance, and still has plenty of cargo room

It’s completely doable, and would make for a better performance car, regardless of how you feel

 

[mustanghammer]

The critical dimension is engine placement and how far behind the front axle it is located. Or in the case of every mustang ever built, how much of the engine is hanging out beyond the front axle. The Mustang II was the worst offender followed by the FOX body. Things got better with the S197 and the S550 is not quite as good based on my side by side observations.

Compare this to the current generation Camaro where that little LS engine sits way back and down in the chassis. It doesn't matter that the Camaro has a 110.7" wheelbase, those cars handle great. And they are light by comparison.

So my proposal would be to add 3-4" to the wheelbase and add this extra length starting at the current location of the firewall to move the front wheels forward. Lower the engine in the car. Use aluminum sub-frames front and back to reduce weight.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Sorry, but you're

A heightened roofline and a tall ride height is what gives a CUV appearance, nothing more. Short overhangs are primarily for performance cars, thus German coupes being only a couple inches shorter in wheelbase, yet being nearly a foot shorter in overall length.

Short overhangs are still part of SUV/CUV proportions, and IIRC you wanted to chop some off of both the front and rear overhangs. Not taking a 2+2 Mustang all the way to CUV does not mean that taking one of the smaller CUV cues - this shorter overhang thing - isn't sneaking a little CUV-ness into the Mustang that isn't there now.

Making the Mustang look more sporty IN NO WAY makes it look more like a crossover

Obviously we have different takes on 'sporty', and cutting the overhangs down toward the minimum says "efficient utility" to me, not "sporty". What sorts of vehicles are all about utility again?

Ah yes, pick a completely different car than the one we’re even talking about

The car that this conversation is ACTUALLY aimed at is the BMW 4 series...

M240 and M2 Competition were the only BMW models actually identified as of the time I posted that picture, so that's what I ran with. The 4-series wasn't identified until later.

But I'll run with it anyway . . . the M4 is priced what, $20k or so above the S550? Different customer, and built from what was a 4-door platform with full 4 passenger seating rather than 2+2, so yeah, the wheelbase is going to be a few inches longer. Mostly behind the driver's hip point where a 4-door sedan needs those extra inches to be. And no, I don't think the front of the 4-series is particularly gracefully styled either.


Norm

 

[Blue Moon]

I love the way my car looks, so don't change the proportions. Just make it smaller overall, and lighter.

 

[jake_zx2]

Sorry, but you're

Short overhangs are still part of SUV/CUV proportions, and IIRC you wanted to chop some off of both the front and rear overhangs. Not taking a 2+2 Mustang all the way to CUV does not mean that taking one of the smaller CUV cues - this shorter overhang thing - isn't sneaking a little CUV-ness into the Mustang that isn't there now.



Obviously we have different takes on 'sporty', and cutting the overhangs down toward the minimum says "efficient utility" to me, not "sporty". What sorts of vehicles are all about utility again?



M240 and M2 Competition were the only BMW models actually identified as of the time I posted that picture, so that's what I ran with. The 4-series wasn't identified until later.

But I'll run with it anyway . . . the M4 is priced what, $20k or so above the S550? Different customer, and built from what was a 4-door platform with full 4 passenger seating rather than 2+2, so yeah, the wheelbase is going to be a few inches longer. Mostly behind the driver's hip point where a 4-door sedan needs those extra inches to be. And no, I don't think the front of the 4-series is particularly gracefully styled either.


Norm

Holy hell, you’re so wrong. Just because YOU equate short overhangs with CUVs doesn’t mean that utility is the purpose. In fact, go ahead and take a look at an Explorer and try to tell me that all CUVs have short overhangs... it simply isn’t the case

The point of minimizing overhangs is to center mass WITHIN the wheelbase, thus improving handling characteristics (I.E. a staple of performance cars)

Then again, what do I know... it’s not like Formula 1 cars have minimal overhangs or anything... oh wait...

The cost of the 4 series has NO relevance in this conversation, but if that’s really the hill you want to die on... well, you can get a 4 series SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than you can get a GT500... so yeah, still wrong

And the fact that it was built on a sedan platform (which FYI, so is the Mustang, you dunce), or your opinions on how the BMW looks in your eyes has nothing to do with the conversation. The point of the BMW in this conversation is to illustrate with a real world example that it’s 100% possible to build a fastback 4 seater car with Mustang-like proportions while minimizing overhangs without it somehow morphing into a crossover, like you claimed

Jesus Christ, this kind of blind idiocy is what made me take a hiatus from this site in the first place

 

[IrishStallion]

Remember opinions/perspectives are like aholes... lol.

 

[jake_zx2]

Remember opinions/perspectives are like aholes... lol.

Agreed, but this dumb twat tried to invalidate my opinion by saying I somehow want to turn the Mustang into a crossover because I requested more performance-oriented proportions

If you don’t want the same thing out of a Mustang, then whatever. But making shit up to try and make people feel wrong for having an opinion? Nah, not gonna happen, I’m just gonna make him feel like the idiot he’s making himself out to be

 

[Norm Peterson]

And the fact that it was built on a sedan platform (which FYI, so is the Mustang, you dunce)

So what 4-door sedan is the S550 sharing its platform with again? Even the S197's D2C platform was never a 4-door platform.

The question of this thread essentially asked how I'd design a Mustang. Sorry if my idea of a Mustang does not include a blunt and visibly shortened front overhang or a needlessly shortened rear overhang. I'm designing a 2+2 ponycar here, which isn't supposed to be as utilitarian as a full-on 4-door sedan or styled as such. But a ponycar should still be more widely useful than an outright sports car like . . . let me see . . . how about BMW's Z4. That car ought to satisfy your minimal-overhang craving, though its proportions look a bit odd to me. Too 'stubby'.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Agreed, but this dumb twat tried to invalidate my opinion by saying I somehow want to turn the Mustang into a crossover because I requested more performance-oriented proportions

Just admit that two people aren't necessarily going to see the same things the same way and let it go. Or keep on with your name-calling, no skin off my back.


Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

So what 4-door sedan is the S550 sharing its platform with again? Even the S197's D2C platform was never a 4-door platform.

The question of this thread essentially asked how I'd design a Mustang. Sorry if my idea of a Mustang does not include a blunt and visibly shortened front overhang or a needlessly shortened rear overhang. I'm designing a 2+2 ponycar here, which isn't supposed to be as utilitarian as a full-on 4-door sedan or styled as such. But a ponycar should still be more widely useful than an outright sports car like . . . let me see . . . how about BMW's Z4. That car ought to satisfy your minimal-overhang craving, though its proportions look a bit odd to me. Too 'stubby'.


Norm

D2C is based off the DEW platform, which was under the 4 door Lincoln LS, and was intended on being shared with the Taurus before the decision was made to make it FWD-based. Therefore, it was built on a sedan-based platform

Yes, the question of the thread was how YOU would proportion the next-gen Mustang, not about telling other people how THEY are wrong for wanting the Mustang proportioned a certain way

But it’s funny that you’re still stuck on this whole idiotic “utilitarian” bullshit, but then the only short overhang vehicle you can think of off-hand is a BMW Z :rofl:

So how about instead of continuing to reply to me, you tell us. How would you design a Mustang, Norm? Let me guess... 5” wheelbase, 180” vehicle length... you know, because the longer the overhangs, the better the sports car

 

[IrishStallion]

lol...

 

[Dave TBG]

I also thought about moving the trans to the rear to help weight distribution - I wasn't sure how feasible it was with rear seats...but I would add that to my list if it was feasible.

The rear seats in my 944 are no less usefully than the rear seats in my Mustang so a transaxle should be easy. If you want a spare tire you'll need to get creative. Rear suspension will probably need extensive modification though, the 944 uses torsion bars and trailing arms. Im not sure this wouldnt shift too much weight though.

For me, the biggest changes that I'd like to see are height and weight. A couple inches and a few hundred lbs would be my goal. My Mustang just seems to be way taller than it needs to be. Lower the seat height by an inch and adjust the roof accordingly . Lower the suspension 3/4" and go with a tire that's a hair smaller around to lower it a couple mm.

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