I think it's time for a new clutch, at 26k miles

[DocWalt]

Yeah some logs uploaded on datazap would be pretty useful.

Sponsored

 

[PencilGeek]

Maybe you could post up your logs and someone here could review them, particularly your AF learning trims. How about [MENTION=28945]PencilGeek[/MENTION]? I know he is experienced with tuning and such.

I'm not a tuner, nor an engine builder. What types of logs are you looking for?

 

[Lurker_350]

I'm not a tuner, nor an engine builder. What types of logs are you looking for?

Sorry if I mis-took your understanding of OBD-II protocols and integration with video, etc. as a general knowledge of engine tuning parameters. I was suggesting that [MENTION=17459]altjx[/MENTION] post a log of his vehicle (with relevant parameters selected) for the community to review - and I thought you would be a good candidate for the "reviewing". I apologize if this is not the case - or if you would prefer to not be volunteered. :cheers:

 

[SVTinAR]

I'm impressed with being able to take off in 6th gear - good clutch, bad clutch that takes some pretty deft clutch modulation.

I don't like the feel of the stock clutch assist spring and installed the Steeda spring. It does make it easier to smoothly drive the car. I don't have to be so careful leaving in first and 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are a lot smoother as I was pretty much dumping the clutch due to the uneven spring pressure with the factory springs.

All that being said I'm surprised a dual plate clutch would go bad this early. Those things are HD and should last through a lot of abuse. Good luck finding a fix.

 

[altjx]

Ok, so quick update. I went to Ford today, flashed back to stock per their request (again), and they hooked up their monitoring stuff. Apparently Ford engineers wanted to data log the car themselves. From what the tech was able to gather initially after the session, the computer's desired RPM was completely different (and always different) from the actual RPM. One example he showed me was that the car was idling around 500-600 on the stock tune, but the computer's desired RPM was still around 1500ish.

Same while driving, when I was around 1500 RPMs or so, the computer's desired RPM was around 600-700 or so as if it wanted me to be idling.

He sent off those results and gonna get back to me when they update him.

So I skipped from page 1 to page 7 but did anyone suggest any issues with the clutch spring (or how ever these cars apply friction force to the clutch)? You would have to be pretty rough on the car to wear a clutch out in 26k miles. I learned on a 95 civic two years ago, that clutch never wore out on me, then went to Europe for a year a drove a diesel renault clio manual, never had any issues there, and I beat the crap outta that car, then came back and got my EB manual and haven't had any clutch problems with that. It sounds like you have a lot of similar clutch habits to myself too. Including you "whatever feels right" theory, which I share.

There are days though, where I'd swear the clutch feels slightly different. Like sometimes its less "sticky" I usually just chalk it up to my seating position, different shoes, temp, etc and haven't worried about it.

Not too sure if it'd be related to the clutch spring in my case. I changed mine from the stock to Steeda's awhile ago, but my issue only happens after I come back down to cruising speeds after going WOT. It's like all hell breaks loose after that.

Maybe you could post up your logs and someone here could review them, particularly your AF learning trims. How about [MENTION=28945]PencilGeek[/MENTION]? I know he is experienced with tuning and such.

Yeah some logs uploaded on datazap would be pretty useful.

I just went and got some logs during my trip back to Ford that I'll upload in just a few moments.

I'm impressed with being able to take off in 6th gear - good clutch, bad clutch that takes some pretty deft clutch modulation.

I don't like the feel of the stock clutch assist spring and installed the Steeda spring. It does make it easier to smoothly drive the car. I don't have to be so careful leaving in first and 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are a lot smoother as I was pretty much dumping the clutch due to the uneven spring pressure with the factory springs.

All that being said I'm surprised a dual plate clutch would go bad this early. Those things are HD and should last through a lot of abuse. Good luck finding a fix.

Yeah I think the Ford tech was a little impressed too, 6th gear from a dead stop! I do have the Steeda clutch spring as well. Made a very noticeable difference.

 

[altjx]

Maybe you could post up your logs and someone here could review them, particularly your AF learning trims. How about [MENTION=28945]PencilGeek[/MENTION]? I know he is experienced with tuning and such.

Yeah some logs uploaded on datazap would be pretty useful.

Logs uploaded to the original post, and also this one. Log #19 is most recent.

Also recorded another video. You may have to put on headphones, but you can hear the exhaust tone changing -- that's the surging issues. Here's the link [ame]

 

[DocWalt]

Logs uploaded to the original post, and also this one. Log #19 is most recent.

Also recorded another video. You may have to put on headphones, but you can hear the exhaust tone changing -- that's the surging issues. Here's the link

Thanks for the logs.

If you look at the PPS-APP1 (throttle pedal position) in Log 19 there's something whacky going on. It thinks you're bouncing on/off the throttle pedal... I assume you weren't doing that anyway... You can also clearly see the revs climb when you lift off of the throttle pedal at the mid point of the log

https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-19?log=0&data=1-9

Here's logs 17 & 18. I don't see anything in 18, but 17 has the throttle pedal issues again.

https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-17?log=0&data=1-9

https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-18?log=0&data=1-9

Does this issue happen when cruise control is on?

 

[jasonstang]

There is definitely some issue with your throttle response like it is not working well with the throttle pedal.
Could it be either a bad throttle pedal or a bad throttle body?

 

[mustang1]

Thanks for the logs.

If you look at the PPS-APP1 (throttle pedal position) in Log 19 there's something whacky going on. It thinks you're bouncing on/off the throttle pedal... I assume you weren't doing that anyway... You can also clearly see the revs climb when you lift off of the throttle pedal at the mid point of the log
...

How does PPS-APP1 compare to ETC_ACT?

Are the column headers defined somewhere? PID, min, max, etc ?

 

[DocWalt]

How does PPS-APP1 compare to ETC_ACT?

Are the column headers defined somewhere? PID, min, max, etc ?

Click on the "etc_act" under the main graph to enable the graphing of that parameter. You can see it seems to linearly match the pedal except for the weird rev spike in the middle of the log.

I made it even easier for you, see here: https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-19?log=0&data=1-5-9

 

[mustang1]

Click on the "etc_act" under the main graph to enable the graphing of that parameter. You can see it seems to linearly match the pedal except for the weird rev spike in the middle of the log.

I made it even easier for you, see here: https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-19?log=0&data=1-5-9

they aren't scaled close enough to easily compare. Google returns one posting providing a text description but they don't appear to correspond to OBD2

PPS-APP1 is pedal position signal accelerator pedal position one
ETC_ACT is electronic throttle control Actual

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs

11 17 1 Throttle position 0 100 %
45 69 1 Relative throttle position 0 100
5A 90 1 Relative accelerator pedal position 0 100 %

 

[altjx]

Thanks for the logs.

If you look at the PPS-APP1 (throttle pedal position) in Log 19 there's something whacky going on. It thinks you're bouncing on/off the throttle pedal... I assume you weren't doing that anyway... You can also clearly see the revs climb when you lift off of the throttle pedal at the mid point of the log

https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-19?log=0&data=1-9

Here's logs 17 & 18. I don't see anything in 18, but 17 has the throttle pedal issues again.

https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-17?log=0&data=1-9

https://datazap.me/u/docwalt/surging-gt350-log-18?log=0&data=1-9

Does this issue happen when cruise control is on?

Thanks a lot man! I haven't tried with Cruise Control just yet but I'll give that a shot as soon as I make it back home on Saturday. Very informative. I really appreciate this dude!

There is definitely some issue with your throttle response like it is not working well with the throttle pedal.
Could it be either a bad throttle pedal or a bad throttle body?

Very interesting. Now remember I did get that service light that indicated Pedal Switch Circuit A and B were probably having issues, but I never got that error code again. Do you think it's possible that under heavy throttle/clutch use that it could be triggering something down there? I'm almost wondering if I should just see if Ford can replace that, even though I've only gotten that error one time and never again.

 

[DocWalt]

they aren't scaled close enough to easily compare. Google returns one posting providing a text description but they don't appear to correspond to OBD2

PPS-APP1 is pedal position signal accelerator pedal position one
ETC_ACT is electronic throttle control Actual

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs

11 17 1 Throttle position 0 100 %
45 69 1 Relative throttle position 0 100
5A 90 1 Relative accelerator pedal position 0 100 %

Feel free to drop it in excel & scale the two values then

 

[altjx]

So the Ford tech just told me that the engineers want him to look at any aftermarket accessories, such as tunes, etc. He told me that he's not far we can get with this because if they send someone out, there's a possibility my warranty could be voided due to the tune.

What I don't understand is what relevance my tune has to this at the moment if the same problem occurs on a stock tune? Are they implying that a bad tune could have been so bad that it caused issues, resulting in the issues occurring on the stock tune? I almost feel like they should replace my clutch pedal switches since I did get a code on it, just not recently. This is so frustrating.

 

[EF300]

Yeah and this is my hesitation to do any kind of tuning on this car. The minute Ford Sees a big bill on the horizon they will come up with any way to get out of it. Good luck man

Sponsored