I hope not - Autoweek: next generation is last ICE Mustang

[Konamoth]

^^^^ This all day long....

No one sees the big picture with EV's, it's all smoke being blown up everyone's ass at how "EV's are greener, it's the future, etc"....

It's NOT and won't be "better". Mining of materials needed for mass EV use is more damaging to the earth than the last 100+ years of ICE.

Is anyone going to want to buy a used EV where it's battery use is 60-85% depleted? And who's going to cough up $8-$10k for a battery replacement for a used EV?

You're going to see EVs dumped everywhere and be as disposable as your weed whacker that the battery pack just crapped out on. Would you spend $100 for a replacement weed whacker battery pack when you can get brand new ones for $100? F-no.

An EV is not as practical as any ICE vehicle OR ICE equipped devices used for every day transportation and necessary jobs. Can you picture landscapers having to stop jobs midway because they are trying to juice up various battery packs for their "commercial" lawnmowers, etc?

Can you imagine you're running late for work and forgot to charge your EV so now you're having to wait another 20, 30, 60 mins for a complete charge?

What about not being able to find an EV charging station when on long trips?

What about when a huge storm comes rolling through and knocks out power or totally destroys these above ground charging depots and stations? You're SOL folks...

I mean c'mon already, open your eyes out there... EV isn't a practical replacement for ICE.

Oh no, c'mon man, that's a plainly myopic outlook on EVs. Extrapolating current day technology to decades in the future just, doesn't work.

No, most folks won't want to buy depleted battery EVs. The same as they aren't keen to buy ICE cars that have been run ragged with miles, much less to pay for an engine swap even at half the price of whatever figures you used for the battery replacement.

Battery and charging tech will get better, faster, and more reliable. It already has, comparing against ten years ago.

The power grids will expand to handle the slowly growing number of EVs as the remaining ICE vehicles wear out and get replaced. Your electricity bill may go up by a couple $10 or $20. Woe.

I don't even really WANT to address that landscaping argument because it seems like such a stretch for a point, but—last I checked, lawnmowers, commercial or not, are not assigned a VIN, nor are they road-going, nor are they managed by the EPA, nor do they necessarily even use ethanol / pump gas.

And finally: you'd be no better in luck if a huge storm came through and knocked out a gas station.

None of these points stand as arguments against EVs.

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[Bikeman315]

I remember the first flat panel TV...$22,000 in today's dollars. The time when computer memory chips were fetching $100 per megabyte.

Demand driven innovation pushed the prices down. It's hard to predict where EV prices will be in 20 or 30 years. But I think we've squeezed all the easy innovation out of ICE and petroleum production.

I remember flat panel TV's well as I worked for Panasonic back in the day. My first plasma was a 42" and had a dealer cost of $1700 in 2005. Today you can buy a 42" Smart TV for what, under $200 retail.

 

[DarthMalice]

guess my Mach 1 will be the last mustang I buy unless sanity returns with e-based fuels. #$%& EVs. Period. If I was forced to get one because nothing else was available then it would be the cheapest most vanilla thing I can find. Not paying a premium for a sporty EV.

 

[Konamoth]

I remember the first flat panel TV...$22,000 in today's dollars. The time when computer memory chips were fetching $100 per megabyte.

Demand driven innovation pushed the prices down. It's hard to predict where EV prices will be in 20 or 30 years. But I think we've squeezed all the easy innovation out of ICE and petroleum production.

This.

In fact, all of you carry a physical testament to the rapid innovation of technology under high demand in your pockets with you right now. You might even be holding it in your hand reading this.

 

[Bikeman315]

guess my Mach 1 will be the last mustang I buy unless sanity returns with e-based fuels. #$%& EVs. Period. If I was forced to get one because nothing else was available then it would be the cheapest most vanilla thing I can find. Not paying a premium for a sporty EV.

My original, and current plan, was to keep my 19' for ten years. But if there is a S650 California Special with the Performance Pack and MagneRide I will certainly look at it.

 

[EFI]

but the only folks with their eyes closed are those of you who are constantly beating the dead horse of EV bad, ICE good.

Those and the ones who think that electricity just magically appears out of thin air and it's generation is green and has absolutely no impact on the environment.

Noone's denying the propulsion of EV cars is good, it's more the whole "saving the world" thing that is being questioned.

 

[Bikeman315]

Those and the ones who think that electricity just magically appears out of thin air and it's generation is green and has absolutely no impact on the environment.

Noone's denying the propulsion of EV cars is good, it's more the whole "saving the world" thing that is being questioned.

Well that's a story for another thread.

 

[ay1820]

You gotta remember we are not moving to electric because its cheaper. I fully expect it might cost the same amount or more to charge your car with electricity one day. We are moving to electric for environment reasons only.

Honestly, I do not actually believe that they are significantly better for the environment, so if that is the only benefit, then the concept will fail. EVs will win out because they are likely to be just better for most people, quieter, smoother, more reliable, simpler, easier to maintain, more efficient, and (eventually) lower total cost of ownership.

The average Joe driving a Camry or some other boring basic box car doesn't care about the things people on sites like this care about, they just want affordable, reliable transportation. EVs are not there yet (at least not the affordable part), but they have the potential to get there. If they don't, then they will fail.

 

[paulm1]

Those and the ones who think that electricity just magically appears out of thin air and it's generation is green and has absolutely no impact on the environment.

Noone's denying the propulsion of EV cars is good, it's more the whole "saving the world" thing that is being questioned.

Correct, the power grid is 50yrs old and they expect it to handle 100% more energy production over the next 10yrs. Unless some new battery tech comes along that requires half the juice to charge an electric car this is a disaster waiting to happen. ICE will be around for the next 50yrs easy.

 

[GT 550]

No, most folks won't want to buy depleted battery EVs. The same as they aren't keen to buy ICE cars that have been run ragged with miles

ICE cars currently go for a lot longer than EVs and let's not confuse 'could/might/should' with 'will' when it comes to EV longevity because the latter is unknown. The vast majority of people who own vehicles really can't afford much and rely on credit to purchase the most fundamental transport but need it and do in fact rely on a supply of cars that have been run ragged. Because they have no choice. Sure there will be future 'this and that' but currently there isn't anything on the horizon that inspires much confidence yet EVs are being pushed as an inevitability.

Battery and charging tech will get better, faster, and more reliable. It already has, comparing against ten years ago.

I'm not anti EV and yes it will but those solutions aren't here yet. You simply can't guarantee a given tech will be with us, otherwise we'd stop cancer research and invest everything into AI because we're simply convinced that AI is the answer even if medical AI is still in relative infancy. If good solutions existed manufacturers would be flogging them. It's a bit like winding back the clock to before we had cell phones but introducing a program to disconnect house and booth phones because someone invented a cell phone and 'it'll all be ok because good things will happen'. The difference is that the adoption of the cell phone was logistically low level and easy and the tech was pretty good from the start, also the risk was low due to redundancy and had a demonstrable positive upside hence the product offering was accepted by consumers. There's not much in common with EVs as they currently stand.

It's understandable that folks are highly sceptical about the practicality and feasibility of EVs and its not worth risking something as essential as reliable transport on technological conjecture. Also a small number of industry players will have complete control of the rate of charging innovation and the IP to control maintenance etc as well as power distribution and we all know the primary driver of industry is $$$ so where do you reckon that'll take us and in who's best interests do you think it'll be?

If EVs fail because consumer adoption is poor and they become unviable to produce it'll be taxpayers who foot the bill for the fallout as these programs are wound back. Industry certainly won't continue to support them out of a sense of guilt and then we'll collectively own the problem, not to mention having flushed mucho denero to promote the technology and then even more to clean up the mess when it fails.

Big industry acts only in the interests of its bottom line and absolutely nothing else. What's interesting is that the EV trend is an overwhelming case of product push rather consumer pull and that's simply dangerous and unusual but then big industry is always working on ways to put the consumer in a corner.

The power grids will expand to handle the slowly growing number of EVs as the remaining ICE vehicles wear out and get replaced.

Just like that? Sounds simple. Out of interest what will that cost? And how will it be funded exactly? What is that expansion plan and has it been extensively modelled? Some power grids in developed countries already can't cope with demand and what happens to folks in rural and remote areas?

And finally: you'd be no better in luck if a huge storm came through and knocked out a gas station.

Nope. I could drive to another close by, of which there are many. If the grid was taken out in that area and the gas couldn't be pumped I could still drive to another. And if it really gets dire you don't need electric pumps to pump gas.

What are you going to do when a cyber attack takes down the grid and it takes days or weeks to resolve? You can't ration it if it doesn't even exist.

I'm really not anti EVs specifically but I am anti 'policy not accounting for reality' which is a classic hallmark of governments and powerful interests.

 

[BombZombie]

Good...let's put more focus on the Mustang Mach-E and give it better performance

 

[Stam616]

I know I am in the minority here, but I really think EVs are going to win out not because of regulations, but because they will simply be better - quieter, smoother, faster, simpler, more reliable, more efficient efficient, and (eventually) lower total cost of ownership. I know battery and charger tech is not quite there yet, but it is getting better every day.

I am not saying this because I believe in some zero emission fantasy (because I don't believe they will end up being all that much "greener"). I just believe that the tech will end up being better and for the average Joe, an EV car will just end up being a better choice. I do believe that it will take longer to get there than some think, but that is where we are heading.

You’re correct. But that you and I are in the minority is only because we can see what the purists can’t. Did anyone think even back in the late 60’s that if Mustang survived to reach its 100th anniversary that it would be propelled by a ICE? Heck back in the 70’s when I was a kid we were told we’d have flying cars by the 2020’s so no, my Dad nor I believed the Mustang would look or be in anyway at all the same kind of vehicle it started out to be.

Mustang is an idea. A concept. It was supposed to be a somewhat small, European-American style Coupe with two doors, a long hood and short deck. It was designed to be a sporty alternative to what was out there at the time. It was designed to get the dollars out of the driving age baby-boomers who had money and desires for something different than the cars their Parents drove. It wildly succeeded.

If Mustang is to see its 100th Anniversary it will have to evolve and change as the times change. It may become a brand in itself, spawning a 4-Door Coupe’ style sedan and the Mach-e. The through line will be the 2-door coupe though. As long as people desire for a more intimate driving experience, as long as there’s people out there who want to sit IN, instead of ON a vehicle that has style, flare and attainable performance- that Mustang, the one which captured the imagination of generations of people since it’s inception, will continue to exist. It will become a fast EV, then from there who knows? Perhaps a Hydrogen powered car? Fusion powered? Maybe it will even Fly like the aircraft that’s served as one of the inspirations for it’s very name.

Yes , the car we know will change, but change it must if it’s to survive and inspire more people to want what that original car delivered as did every generation since. That inspiration is different and very personal for each of us, but wanting to capture it- gives us the chance to attain a dream.

 

[Ogopogo]

I think folks here like CobraJet don't understand how rapidly EV technology will unfold once a critical mass of EV production gets underway. Smartphones and LED TVs are a few good examples and the supporting infrastructure comes with it, e.g. 5G mobile technology and expanded coverage into rural areas. It will be no different for EVs, including more efficient and durable battery packs, possible solid state battery packs, charging station standards and numbers, and breakthroughs in electrical storage at the substation level. Most everyone will charge at home on Level 2 chargers, the equivalent of a dryer or electric range. By 2030 or 2040, this thread could look Jurassic in nature.

I ordered a 2022 GT Oct 2021 on the chance that the s650 would not come with the Coyote 5.0. I am fine with that decision. How long the s650 will be produced with the Coyote 5.0 will depend on several factors. One of them being meeting the 2026 CAFE requirements of 40mpg, the remaining mix of Ford ICE vs EV vehicles to support that, whether Ford will need to purchase credits to keep the V8 in production, whether Ford will choose to have a limited run of V8s to stay with the CAFE, and ultimately demand by buyers.

I would not be surprised if enough 'muscle' performance EV sport cars come along by 2028 or so that all the younger cohort will have migrated to that platform and we with our V8s look like the hold outs. Time will tell and I think Ford is wise NOT to make too many statements about the future. Let it unfold in its own way. A new hybrid version may turn out to be 'hotcakes'. We shouldn't pre-judge the answer. In the meantime, this old coot will be happy with the '22 GT.

 

[BombZombie]

I think folks here like CobraJet don't understand how rapidly EV technology will unfold once a critical mass of EV production gets underway. Smartphones and LED TVs are a few good examples and the supporting infrastructure comes with it, e.g. 5G mobile technology and expanded coverage into rural areas. It will be no different for EVs, including more efficient and durable battery packs, possible solid state battery packs, charging station standards and numbers, and breakthroughs in electrical storage at the substation level. Most everyone will charge at home on Level 2 chargers, the equivalent of a dryer or electric range. By 2030 or 2040, this thread could look Jurassic in nature.

I ordered a 2022 GT Oct 2021 on the chance that the s650 would not come with the Coyote 5.0. I am fine with that decision. How long the s650 will be produced with the Coyote 5.0 will depend on several factors. One of them being meeting the 2026 CAFE requirements of 40mpg, the remaining mix of Ford ICE vs EV vehicles to support that, whether Ford will need to purchase credits to keep the V8 in production, whether Ford will choose to have a limited run of V8s to stay with the CAFE, and ultimately demand by buyers.

I would not be surprised if enough 'muscle' performance EV sport cars come along by 2028 or so that all the younger cohort will have migrated to that platform and we with our V8s look like the hold outs. Time will tell and I think Ford is wise NOT to make too many statements about the future. Let it unfold in its own way. A new hybrid version may turn out to be 'hotcakes'. We shouldn't pre-judge the answer. In the meantime, this old coot will be happy with the '22 GT.

I think a hybrid would be awesome

 

[AvalancheSVT]

This is like saying the sky is blue at this point.

Hope all you'd like, but ICE is being regulated out the world over to push the move to EV, or whatever alternative fuels we put out in a decade's time. We've known for a long time now that the S650 Mustang would be the last standing purely ICE pony car, and the coming generation (at the very least, its first few years) will be exactly that: the last standing purely ICE pony car.

Spare the doomsaying, and go drive your car.

Likewise. Pressing regs are speeding the process along, but if you look at EV tech and infrastructure ten years ago against today, it's a massive difference that's only getting bigger. Cleaner in the long term, (NOT zero emission) lower maintenance requirements, ultimately in a world where most vehicles see the same couple hundred miles of range and can be refilled overnight. Like it or not, that die is cast.

Putting regulations aside, I would posit that any notion of ICE having staying power in the mass market (reiterating, to the average joe, who just want something to carry them from point A to point B, not the people of this—or really, any other enthusiast car forum.) against marching tech in EVs is just, unrealistic. Pasting a myopic view of what EV tech looks like right now over ten years into the future is equally unrealistic. You can look at anything even tech-adjacent in the past decade and see how far it's come. If EVs are even half as "device" rather than "car" as folks parrot them to be, then why are they any exception?

Grumble grumble, radda radda—just drive your cars and smile, people.

do you realize there is a rising tide of backlash from a very armed and angry public for reasons just like this across a myriad of other subjects?

you assume the EPA or even the federal govt exists ten years from now despite the fact that the cultural climate right now has all the hallmarks of a divided nation about to destroy itself.

ICE engines won't go anywhere until something better comes along.

that doesn't even get into how these overgrown powerwheels are extremely expensive disposable commodities. the backlash from that is coming, too, and it ain't gonna be pretty.

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