I have a chance to buy an inter-family '69 Mach 1

[526 HRSE]

It only has the 351 and I'm not a huge Mustang guy. (had A Camaro and Z28 as a teen) Fast forward a gazilion years. The gt350 is a god amongst mortals that lured me in. I probably wouldn't own any other newer Mustangs and that includes the 500. But, i do love me some old muscle cars. My son really wants this car from his Uncle, so i'll probably buy it and hold on to it until he can afford it.

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[ugstang17]

If it has the Cleveland 351 that would be a nice have. The 351 Cleveland is my favorite old school Ford engine. It was considered a mid-block by many. It was in a class all by itself as it was not an SB but not a BB either. I helped my oldest friend build one and put it in his 66 F100 short bed. There is even a supercharger package (centri style) available for them I recently learned. They run great, make very good power and look awesome under the hood because of their huge heads. . Full weight the truck ran high 12's on street tires. It did have some serious suspension work done to it along with a 3.73 detroit locker in a Ford 9" being driven by a built C6 with a 3500 stall. It was on race fuel but ran nicely on 93 as well with a little timing knocked out.

 

[526 HRSE]

If it has the Cleveland 351 that would be a nice have. The 351 Cleveland is my favorite old school Ford engine. It was considered a mid-block by many. It was in a class all by itself as it was not an SB but not a BB either. I helped my oldest friend build one and put it in his 66 F100 short bed. There is even a supercharger package (centri style) available for them I recently learned. They run great, make very good power and look awesome under the hood because of their huge heads. . Full weight the truck ran high 12's on street tires. It did have some serious suspension work done to it along with a 3.73 detroit locker in a Ford 9" being driven by a built C6 with a 3500 stall. It was on race fuel but ran nicely on 93 as well with a little timing knocked out.

Unfortunately i think it's a Windsor.

 

[ugstang17]

bummer

 

[The Chairman]

Unfortunately i think it's a Windsor.

'69's only came with 351 Windsors (2 & 4 bbl), 390 4 bbl or 428 4 bbl.
Early '70 2bbls also had Windsors.
- I had a '69 Mach 1 w/390 as a kid, and recently sold a '70 Mach 1 that had a 351 Windsor with a 2 bbl. Owned this car for over 28 years... Great car.

The Windsor is a much better engine for both performance and longevity. The canted valve Cleveland could rev higher but the valve guides wore badly causing valve seat issues. The Cleveland eventually went away and Fox Mustangs have Windsors. It's still available as a great crate engine.

 

[526 HRSE]

'69's only came with 351 Windsors (2 & 4 bbl), 390 4 bbl or 428 4 bbl.
Early '70 2bbls also had Windsors.
- I had a '69 Mach 1 w/390 as a kid, and recently sold a '70 Mach 1 that had a 351 Windsor with a 2 bbl. Owned this car for over 28 years... Great car.

The Windsor is a much better engine for both performance and longevity. The canted valve Cleveland could rev higher but the valve guides wore badly causing valve seat issues. The Cleveland eventually went away and Fox Mustangs have Windsors. It's still available as a great crate engine.

I was always under the impression the Cleveland was the better engine. Not for any particular reason other than I think my dad's old Gran Torino had one. Lol

 

[526 HRSE]

Btw, what did your 70 go for?

 

[The Chairman]

I was always under the impression the Cleveland was the better engine. Not for any particular reason other than I think my dad's old Gran Torino had one. Lol

The Cleveland grew into 400 cu and was used in all sorts of cars/trucks in the ‘70s. But died out as Ford realized the Windsor was the better block. In fact, the Boss 302 was a Windsor block with Cleveland heads. Those heads gave the Boss its lungs.

 

[The Chairman]

Btw, what did your 70 go for?

PM sent.

 

[526 HRSE]

Went to take a look at it. It's been in the family on my wife's side for a bit.

 

[ugstang17]

The Cleveland was replaced with the 351M and used in trucks. It was not a very impressive engine. But then again few engines from 1975 to about 1981 were very impressive. I'll take a Cleveland any day over a Windsor.

 

[SINBUSTER007]

526 Horse,

drooling.....ugh. very nice!

if you can get it, then DO IT!!
will require a lot of TLC but worth it....

remember it is not the 6G so dont drive it like it is....

now get a 2021 Velosity or Antimatter Blue Mach 1 to match!

 

[Jimmy Dean]

can't pass that up man.

 

[Strokerswild]

OP, I'd have a hard time passing on that car assuming the price is right and it's solid.

'69's only came with 351 Windsors (2 & 4 bbl), 390 4 bbl or 428 4 bbl.
Early '70 2bbls also had Windsors.
- I had a '69 Mach 1 w/390 as a kid, and recently sold a '70 Mach 1 that had a 351 Windsor with a 2 bbl. Owned this car for over 28 years... Great car.

The Windsor is a much better engine for both performance and longevity. The canted valve Cleveland could rev higher but the valve guides wore badly causing valve seat issues. The Cleveland eventually went away and Fox Mustangs have Windsors. It's still available as a great crate engine.

The Cleveland grew into 400 cu and was used in all sorts of cars/trucks in the ‘70s. But died out as Ford realized the Windsor was the better block. In fact, the Boss 302 was a Windsor block with Cleveland heads. Those heads gave the Boss its lungs.

Having built a few Clevelands and Windsors, and having drag raced a Cleveland extensively in the early 1990s, I wouldn't necessarily say that the Windsor is superior. The Windsor lived longer as a production engine (and is still the go-to small block) simply because it was much cheaper to produce and was easier to meet emissions standards with; the Windsor is also lighter. OEM cylinder head flow is far better on the Clevelands, particularly the 4-barrel heads (which were used on the Boss 302 as stated).

The only real drawback of the Cleveland versus Windsor is in the oiling system, which only has two oil galleries. Only the #1 main bearing got oil directly from the pump, and the other four mains got oil after feeding the lifters and upper valvetrain; the cam bearings were also fed off the mains. If you wanted to run a Cleveland past 6,000 RPM or more with any regularity, you had to install oil passage restrictors in the 2-5 main saddles to help keep oil on the bottom end (no deal with a hydraulic cam). The other fun fact with this weirdo oiling system is if you had a rocker arm or pushrod failure and the lifter got smacked out of its bore into the lifter valley, it would cause an immediate "bleed" of pressure to the mains. My 4-barrel Cleveland ran high 11s in a 1970 Cougar, and the engine lives on today (slightly detuned) in a 1970 Fairlane that my brother owns. The Cleveland remains my favorite small block Ford hands down.

I built a 414-inch 400 for a Ranchero I had at the time with early 351C 2-barrel heads (better castings) with a milled block and heads for better compression, plus only roller rockers and a 4-barrel intake and a 750 Holley that raised more than a few eyebrows. I did it somewhat to prove a point that the 400 can be something other than a boat anchor. Ah, the memories.

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