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How well will Mach 1's hold their value?

Nardly

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I really could care less if my Mach 1 holds its value. The value is in the eye's of the beholder. After seeing the new S650 Formaro I am very happy. I don't like the front or rear end and the Dark Horse emblem reminds me of a Dodge Ram emblem. My Mach 1 will be my last Mustang so trade-in or resale value doesn't matter.
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Nope

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Sorry dude, agree to disagree. Just can't make myself like the S650 body style, and the DH is just my car in a body style I don't like.
I agree. DH is OK but itā€™s not for me. Mostly because of that tablet display and the rear. Itā€™s going to be an amazing machine Iā€™m sure, just not for me.
 

luc

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unfortunately, I think the S650s will hurt M1 values a bit. Full disclaimer I have ZERO interest in replacing my Mach 1 with any S650 variation.

I have always taken the position that if the M1 was the last hurrah on pure ICE non Shelby V8 Mustangs, that would help it holds it value. With the S650 not only being offered as pure ICE models, but with a revised Gen 4 Coyote V8, that is projected to make even more power will hurt us.

The exclusivity of the Tremec was also supposed to help the Mach 1, but the Dark Horse can be equipped with that transmission as well.

If the track performance of the Dark horse exceeds that of Mach 1, then it will be a further pull down on the M1's value. Mach 1 would no longer be "the most capable Coyote V8 powered Mustang" Lets wait and see on this point though. I fully expect the Dark Horse will exceed M1 on track measurables, and the magazines and media will make a bit deal about it even though in the real world virtually nobody outside the Randy Probst types would even benefit from it. Such is the case with incremental performance improvement, media typically hypes it up more than realities justify it.

On the other hand, if Dark Horse and S650 are priced too expensively, or just don't sell as well as Mach 1s did, this might outweigh everything I just said.

Its a tough thing to predict, and when you ask about resale, you have to determine the time frame we are talking about. What exactly are we saying in 5, 10, 20 years what will Mach 1s go for....? This is very hard to determine, governments globally are attacking ICE vehicles, especially V8s with gusto through various methods. Everything from outrageous registration fees, fuel taxes, emissions taxes, and outright bans. So as the "affordable" V8s are killed off by manufactures (this is purely because of regulation, not natural market choices by consumers) its hard to determine what that market will be like.

We also must remember this will not be the same market and collectors situation we saw coming out of the classic muscle car era. I argue modern cars, will never be as "collectable" as the classics. Those mechanical cars could be fixed, and tuned much more easily than modern computer controlled cars. The big devil in the details with the modern cars is emissions control. In most smog check jurisdictions, if you have a CEL on, regardless if that is actually raising your tail pipe emissions, that is an automatic fail, preventing you from getting smog clearance and registering the car. It can costs hundreds just figuring out what the problem is let alone to actually fix the damn things.

My wife had to give up a beautifully running 2004 Chrysler 300M because of this scheme, even though the actually tail pipe emissions was LOWER than the max values, CARB doesn't care. It is a scheme, the entire aim is to get gas vehicles off the road. You are put in a conundrum spend more money on the car than it is worth to track down a CEL problem, or give up the car because you can't register it and legally use it on the roads. In some cases guys have spent hundreds changing sensors to try and clear smog but the computer gets stuck in open loop, and therefore ineligible to test, even after hundreds of miles and now likely expired tags, another dead end for the owner. CARB already passed regulations that force SMOG check locations to provide 24 hour open access to their own test equipment and databases and will require biometric data of the inspector to be submitted for each test, including a webcam. This is an effort to crack down on inspectors who will pass failed cars under the table for extra money. Sounds dystopian and don't believe me check this out? CARB is the model many other jurisdictions follow, this is coming to a neighborhood near you in no time believe me.

https://www.bar.ca.gov/arsc/newslet...og-check-security-enhancements-in-development
????
What about simply figuring out why your wife car has the check engine light?
2 minutes job with a code reader
ā€¦..and do you know why smog test are much easier and cheaper since no more sniff test and rolling load ???
Yep, because of the OBDā€¦ no light , you pass, light you donā€™t..
As for your wife car, what about you had an issue with the vapor recovery system/ purge valve ?
The exhaust gas will not be ā€œworst ā€œ for the simple reason that the hydrocarbons vapors would be directly rejected in the air, totally bypassing the engine
Sorry but your example is dumb
 

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sakman84

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????
What about simply figuring out why your wife car has the check engine light?
2 minutes job with a code reader
ā€¦..and do you know why smog test are much easier and cheaper since no more sniff test and rolling load ???
Yep, because of the OBDā€¦ no light , you pass, light you donā€™t..
As for your wife car, what about you had an issue with the vapor recovery system/ purge valve ?
The exhaust gas will not be ā€œworst ā€œ for the simple reason that the hydrocarbons vapors would be directly rejected in the air, totally bypassing the engine
Sorry but your example is dumb
If you didn't get the point of the post, not much more I can say. So you didn't like my specific example, but the fact remains, not all CELs result in more emissions. If the test is really about emissions isn't that what matters, shouldn't that be the determinant? Understood it is possible a car is emitting more pollutants directly from leaks/ problems in the engine bay, exhaust.

You assume that replacing the sensor tripping the code according to the scanner will actually fix the problem. This is all good in theory, many times reality doesn't play out that way. Any given code can have many causes including multiple sensors. The costs add up quickly, exceeding the value of an older car in no time.

The fact is many many people with cars not excessively polluting are stuck failing an inspection. I really feel for the people who try to fix the errors, clear the codes, and even then the ECU gets stuck in open loop an you are screwed. CA BAR has a program, that tries to offset the cost for the owners, or gives them a bit of cash when turning in a car like this, but that is hardly recompense for the auto itself.

We can go back and forth of the intricacies of CA smog check scheme, but that is not the point. It was to illustrate that collecting modern cars subject to smog testing is not the same as collecting cars from the classic era. It will not play out the same way.
 

Charlemagne

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I'd be careful about drawing any long term conclusions based on the current market. It won't last.
Give it 30 years and they'll sell for more than MSRP. Not many will be in pristine condition anymore and with V8 it will be a dinosaur among electric sheep šŸ˜

If they'll manage to create 15k for 3 years altogether, for the whole world, it's not some very big number.
 

ay1820

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Give it 30 years and they'll sell for more than MSRP. Not many will be in pristine condition anymore and with V8 it will be a dinosaur among electric sheep šŸ˜

If they'll manage to create 15k for 3 years altogether, for the whole world, it's not some very big number.
Sure, I agree with that ... the ways most cars are built today, the only ones left in 30 years will be a handful of garage queens.
 

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yjfang

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I bought the Mach 1 to drive and I love the feel of it. My Mach 1 won't have a ton of miles on it but will definitely not be a garage queen. It will probably hold up in value better than most Mustangs but the joy of driving it is worth more than any potential appreciation. There are much better investments than cars out there.
 

13GetThere

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The next big thing.
When I traded my 13 Mustang GT Brembo for my 19 GT PP2, a friend of mine told me not to do it. On this point he was right, he said there would always be some improvement every model year or generation to get you to trade your current car for the next big improvement.
When the 21 Mach 1 came out, it had an improvement that I wanted, but only in the HP, and that was the automatic transmission. The 20 extra horses didn't really matter to me. I saw no real reason or value in trading at that time.
Now that the Dark Horse is coming out, I may be able to afford the Mach 1 HP I want when someone trades their's for "the next big thing".
 

Charlemagne

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there would always be some improvement every model year or generation to get you to trade your current car for the next big improvement
It might not really be a valid point anymore, considering how far the tech advanced and what it provides now, it kinda reached its potential. With power and NA, can 5.0 exceed 500 hp by much? It's far easier to just supercharge it. Brakes, can that be improved much? Carbon ceramic cost a fortune and Mach 1 doesn't really lack stopping power (or GT350 brakes). Exhaust? Suspension? Any functional aspect? What is there to improve significantly? Hence why Dark Horse is almost identical to Mach 1 with just different look. For some people the assistents and phone/media stuff is important but it really isn't for a fun weekend car.

So every tech reaches a point of saturation so to speak, where the improvements are marginal and/or costly. The revolution here (in power for sure) would be EV and that's not what most V8 fans want. They already made the car to handle curves and not just straight lines, there's no more improvements to be made šŸ˜
 

ay1820

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It might not really be a valid point anymore, considering how far the tech advanced and what it provides now, it kinda reached its potential. With power and NA, can 5.0 exceed 500 hp by much? It's far easier to just supercharge it. Brakes, can that be improved much? Carbon ceramic cost a fortune and Mach 1 doesn't really lack stopping power (or GT350 brakes). Exhaust? Suspension? Any functional aspect? What is there to improve significantly? Hence why Dark Horse is almost identical to Mach 1 with just different look. For some people the assistents and phone/media stuff is important but it really isn't for a fun weekend car.

So every tech reaches a point of saturation so to speak, where the improvements are marginal and/or costly. The revolution here (in power for sure) would be EV and that's not what most V8 fans want. They already made the car to handle curves and not just straight lines, there's no more improvements to be made šŸ˜
It all comes down to "bragging rights". The honest truth is that unless you are tracking your car, these incremental differences won't really matter much. I know people who have spent all sorts of money chasing an extra 20 or 30 HP and ended up being disappointed that it really didn't "feel" that much different.
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