How much hp can the 5.0 handle on stock internals?

[battleship]

Have you dyno'd? I would think at 20psi you'd be over a 1000

just dyno'ed last week at 892.. I'm in an F150 so the power is not going to be the same. I came to this board as there is more techinical/ race related posts than the F150 forums. figured the motor is the same, so what the hell. ( ie: I'm not trolling)

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[Angrey]

because it's not worth my time at this moment. When your a shop foreman at a Mercedes-benz dealer, working on vehicles becomes more of a chore than for fun. I highly doubt there is a market for used Gen 3 parts.

you'd be surprised. Look at the previous posts in this thread. For someone who wants the benefits of the genIII block, they're out nearly $2k with shipping. You could easily sell to someone for $1500 who's looking to do a build with a gen III.

If you wait until it nukes, then the asking price goes way down because then they have to wonder if the block was damaged (or if the block IS damaged, it becomes scrap).

Just saying, you have 2 parts, one of which you're confident will last the other is a question. Why wait until it's depreciated to make the swap.

It's your time, and yes, as someone who works 70 hours a week for a living and doing a build myself, I can appreciate your point. My point is that if you wait until the motor goes, you still have to do the swap, so the labor required is there in either path.

 

[battleship]

you'd be surprised. Look at the previous posts in this thread. For someone who wants the benefits of the genIII block, they're out nearly $2k with shipping. You could easily sell to someone for $1500 who's looking to do a build with a gen III.

If you wait until it nukes, then the asking price goes way down because then they have to wonder if the block was damaged (or if the block IS damaged, it becomes scrap).

Just saying, you have 2 parts, one of which you're confident will last the other is a question. Why wait until it's depreciated to make the swap.

It's your time, and yes, as someone who works 70 hours a week for a living and doing a build myself, I can appreciate your point. My point is that if you wait until the motor goes, you still have to do the swap, so the labor required is there in either path.

intresting point. I didn't realize there was a market for a used short block. The only thing I'm keeping is the cylinder heads. Maybe I have to reconsider and take the 2.80 pulley off the whipple.

 

[Angrey]

intresting point. I didn't realize there was a market for a used short block. The only thing I'm keeping is the cylinder heads. Maybe I have to reconsider and take the 2.80 pulley off the whipple.

For MOST people without severe OCD, a used block in good shape with no issues is perfectly fine for a new build, especially if it's gonna get decked and sleeved.

Why pay a vendor $2k for a brand new block shipped if you can pickup a perfectly good used one for $1500, or $1000 if you want to move it yesterday.

 

[olaosunt]

just dyno'ed last week at 892.. I'm in an F150 so the power is not going to be the same. I came to this board as there is more techinical/ race related posts than the F150 forums. figured the motor is the same, so what the hell. ( ie: I'm not trolling)

I am in a similar situation. My OEM engine plus OPG/CS in my 2018 Mustang GT is making about 900 whp with a Gen5 whipple /2.875 grip tech pulley through stock manifolds /cat deletes . Traps 147 mph in the 1/4 in the heat. I was concerned it was may be not making the power /trap for that pulley but compression test checked out .
I had a spare long block built using the next generation 5.2 block/new heads and some minor head work (springs /studs) . It’s comparable to the 5.2 Alluminator XS - SB has exact same internals- but with Gen 3 heads (but mine is long block ). Out the door cost was may be 1/3 of the cost of the 5.2 Alluminator (which can’t be used in 18+)

Also have a second spare in the works starting with a used Gen 3 long block I scored for what I think is cheap ($3K) . That one going to be closer to the Alluminator Gen 3 engine since same pistons but with Manley H tuff rods /head studs and valve spring upgrade . Cost is about 1/2 what Ford racing is asking .

you'd be surprised. Look at the previous posts in this thread. For someone who wants the benefits of the genIII block, they're out nearly $2k with shipping. You could easily sell to someone for $1500 who's looking to do a build with a gen III.

If you wait until it nukes, then the asking price goes way down because then they have to wonder if the block was damaged (or if the block IS damaged, it becomes scrap).


Just saying, you have 2 parts, one of which you're confident will last the other is a question. Why wait until it's depreciated to make the swap.

It's your time, and yes, as someone who works 70 hours a week for a living and doing a build myself, I can appreciate your point. My point is that if you wait until the motor goes, you still have to do the swap, so the labor required is there in either path.

Great point as I should probably do the swap before the stock motor grenades . I was going to build that up as another spare to keep but may sell it if there is truly a market for it (I paid 3K for the used long block with 800 miles I am building).
The point is parts as so cheap not a bad idea to have at least a spare short block on hand If you are pushing your stock motor before it blows .

 

[olaosunt]

Speaking of blocks....

Have you all seen the Preditor block!!!! It only costs $2500, and freaking has the thickest walls I have ever seen, with spray bore liners. With almost a fully closed deck.

This block is a game changer, for the bang for the buck.

True talk .The Gen 2 (used in the latest voodoo) is even cheaper at $1800. It’s the same casting as the predator (Gen3) and the only difference is the location of the oil squirters and the final machining for the larger predator rods . I have compared the 2 side by side .

I just built a Gen3 short block with all brand new parts and MPR doing the machine work for 4200.00 . great times we live in. I'm pushing 900whp on my Gen3 running 20psi through my Gen 3 whipple. I know i'm on borrowed time, so I built a short block as a back up.. If I pop the engine, no biggie, I will swap it out over the course of a weekend.

I will one up you on that one . I scored a predator block / 5.2 crank /Mahle (drop in voodoo replacement)/H rods for $3400 . I paid for the SB final assembly and balancing but still came out at just over $4000.

I know I am obsessed but this stuff is so relatively cheap and with the deals out there (people buy stuff and change their minds ) it’s hard to resist . I now have 2 spare long blocks and a SB for my car . if I end up not needing them I am sure I can always “flip “ one as there will always be someone who needs one in a hurry .

 

[Nallek]

I'm thinking of going with a Gen 3r VMP SC for my 2015 (gen 2 coyote). No other mods other than axle back, rotors/pads, springs and rims. Outside of the half shaft axles and new clutch, I'll have about 12k to spend all in all, for everything. I'll be happy with 700-800 for longevity and reliability. What all do you recommend doing for insurance and reliability? Or would anyone not recommend the VMP sc's? The kits come with all the typical kit items: the BAP, the larger injectors, throttle body, head unit, pulley(s), etc.

All input is great! I have 93 and e85 around me plentiful, so my tunes are open to those fuel types. Remember, reliable, streetable. Would be fun to shut down some demons and vettes in the area!

 

[smokescreens]

Opg's and crank spocket. If your wanting e85 you better do a return style fuel system.

 

[DougS550]

Yeah, I heard Lethal was doing a sale. I highly recommend the 72lb injectors with 132mm TB.

Hi. Are they selling future parts not yet made, or are these kits in stock ready to ship out?

 

[turbopk]

I've seen quite a few videos of guys putting down 1000rwhp+ on stock motor/stock trans( AT)
Seems to be bolt ons, boost, fuel and E85

 

[Jackson1320]

For MOST people without severe OCD, a used block in good shape with no issues is perfectly fine for a new build, especially if it's gonna get decked and sleeved.

Why pay a vendor $2k for a brand new block shipped if you can pickup a perfectly good used one for $1500, or $1000 if you want to move it yesterday.

I get new gen2 and gen3 blocks shipped for $700-$800 even in the $600 range before

 

[Kane]

How much the block can handle compared to GT350 block?

 

[Angrey]

How much the block can handle compared to GT350 block?

Multiple versions of each (5.0 and 5.2). There are 3 versions of the 5.2 block, the first two being very minor in nature, the third being the predator block which is the boss of them all (with significant changes to reinforcement and webbing and thicknesses, etc and cooling channels). With the 5.0, I think the gen3 is comparable to the first 2 GT350 versions. The Gen2 can't handle as much because it's 11mm head studs that penetrate shallower into the deck (so the real limit becomes the max PSI you can run on 11mm shallow studs without lifting the heads). I suppose if you had the Gen2 block and heads with receiver grooves you could probably extend that limit a little further, but at some point you're going to lift the heads sooner with 11mm shallow studs than 12mm deep studs and the grooved gaskets aren't going to resolve all of that.

Bottom line, the Gen 3 and the G350 blocks are pretty comparable, but the previous gen are probably a little less, but I'm sure some guys will chime in that any of them will make more power than the chassis or your budget can handle if they're sleeved. The weak point on the Gen3 and GT350 seems to be the cylinder walls and the infamous water jacket support on the yotes.

 

[Kane]

Multiple versions of each (5.0 and 5.2). There are 3 versions of the 5.2 block, the first two being very minor in nature, the third being the predator block which is the boss of them all (with significant changes to reinforcement and webbing and thicknesses, etc and cooling channels). With the 5.0, I think the gen3 is comparable to the first 2 GT350 versions. The Gen2 can't handle as much because it's 11mm head studs that penetrate shallower into the deck (so the real limit becomes the max PSI you can run on 11mm shallow studs without lifting the heads). I suppose if you had the Gen2 block and heads with receiver grooves you could probably extend that limit a little further, but at some point you're going to lift the heads sooner with 11mm shallow studs than 12mm deep studs and the grooved gaskets aren't going to resolve all of that.

Bottom line, the Gen 3 and the G350 blocks are pretty comparable, but the previous gen are probably a little less, but I'm sure some guys will chime in that any of them will make more power than the chassis or your budget can handle if they're sleeved. The weak point on the Gen3 and GT350 seems to be the cylinder walls and the infamous water jacket support on the yotes.

Thank you! , yah forgot to mention mine is gen 3 & not sure what gen is the GT350 that I've been offered the block for... Seems like there isn't much difference to pay $1500 for used GT350 block

 

[Angrey]

Thank you! , yah forgot to mention mine is gen 3 & not sure what gen is the GT350 that I've been offered the block for... Seems like there isn't much difference to pay $1500 for used GT350 block

Maybe, again, there's 2 versions of the GT350 block and I'm unclear as to whether the last of the 350's started using Predator 5.2 blocks instead of the previous A and B 5.2's.

The Predator block is the daddy of them all, so you should get the part number. I can't remember the exact code on the Predator block, but just run a search on the part number to see which version it is. If it's not the predator, then it's not going to be substantially better than a gen3 block.

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