762Cat
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This is long. I'm post op sinus surgery stuck on the couch.....help me out I really have nothing better I can do.
I have two Hellcats and a GT350. A ZL1 1LE has been calling my name for a long time. I'm in the ZL1 1LE vs Gt500 mental debate and would like to discuss it with some of the people most informed on the subject. I belong to Hellcatforum.org....the will tell me both suck. I belong to Camaro6 they will tell me of course it's the ZL1. I suspect I'll get it's the GT500 here but here but I expect this crowd to be the most well informed on the new GT500 and I know a few have at least driven it in Vegas or taken delivery now.
The problem is I can get a brand new 2020 Zl1 1LE in the A10 transmission for 61k. Is the GT500 worth the premium with even and MSRP deal base model costing 80K? I've driven the Manual ZLE (for short) and loved it. That being said I bought a GT350 instead. Mostly because it felt more special and it was something very different than what i currently owned and I got it for a better deal. At the time 68K was the best ZLE deal out there and I paid 55900 OTD for a 2019 GT350.
Performance wise the cars I think are going to be very very close. Ford says 3.3 0-60 and 10.7 1/4 mile. We've seen 3.3 via stangmode and 10.6 twice now. Motor trend says 3.6 and 11.4 in their testing which is close to their ZL1 testing of 3.3 and 11.4. Both on unprepared surfaces as MT does. The 500 puts down 760hp so it's up by 110 but it's down 25lbs of torque and it weighs close to 400lbs more depending on your source being Ford or a kid on youtube. All in all it points to a very close match up. The ZLE has a big wang that produces I believe slightly more down force than the Fords and does so with out adding 18500 dollars to the equation. It also wears massive 325 wide tires out back that I can say from experience hook very well even in first gear. The Ford has the Dual clutch which by all accounts is phenomenal. The A10 Zl1 is also by all accounts amazing.....see the most recent lightning lap testing. The ZLE has proven on track performance at the Ring and many others. The GT500 no doubt in my mind will be as good or very close and perhaps slightly better in the CFTP variety but it seems Ford has no interest in official lap time testing and for whatever reason other publications aren't sharing the numbers either. Ford will be and is faster in the 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and probably the standing mile. After that it's limited to 180 whereas the ZLE tops out officially at 199 with it's non 1LE brother at 202. Who cares? I do a little bit as somebody who has taken his Hellcat to the Kennedy Space center for 2 mile runs and has had both Cats well past the 180mph mark on more than one occasion. Is it that important? No....but it's another measuring stick for the comparison. Even with the GT500 being definitively faster in the 1/4 its worth noting after years of trying ZL1 owners have only managed 10.9s in a stock form much to their dismay and even on a drag radial. Relevant because the ZL1 has good traction control and torque management that helps it hook up in the real world but that hurt it on a prepped surface. I wonder if the Gt500 will be the same or if it will truly benefit from a Drag Radial. The Hellcat is the opposite. It NEEDS a drag radial and benefits significantly from it.
I've seen both interiors. The Camaros recaros are a bit nicer being electrically adjustable and heated and cooled but I rather like the interior of my 2019 GT350 with the carbon fiber and the GT500s is a bit nicer with the better recaros. All in all I think its a wash. The visibility is TERRIBLE in the camaro but I've driven it with no issues and I'm not buying the car to go sight seeing in. The ride is not so great but IMHO not so bad either. The 500 will no doubt be more livable on the street though and certainly for passengers.
All this being said and if you are still with me (thank you) I think the GT500 is the better car and like the 350 will feel more special. But is it 20-60K more special? At the high end of that is room for a nice truck or a significant down payment on say a 65 Cobra (replica of course BackDraft of Superformance) or Ariel atom. Then of course there is the trying to get one game. All rational thinking points me to the ZL1 but this isn't a rational thing.....this is the need for speed and the passion for automobiles. Something greater that the 500 will come eventually. It may even be soon with the C8 Z06. The mental debate continues. The greatest mustang ever built or the greatest Camaro ever built? I have no brand loyalty but I do love and respect Carol Shelby and the history tied to the car even though it's very much Ford Performance product now. Let's not forget also, a Cobra is much cooler than alphabet soup. Interested in constructive thoughts.....hell at this point even A-hole comments would be entertaining.
I have two Hellcats and a GT350. A ZL1 1LE has been calling my name for a long time. I'm in the ZL1 1LE vs Gt500 mental debate and would like to discuss it with some of the people most informed on the subject. I belong to Hellcatforum.org....the will tell me both suck. I belong to Camaro6 they will tell me of course it's the ZL1. I suspect I'll get it's the GT500 here but here but I expect this crowd to be the most well informed on the new GT500 and I know a few have at least driven it in Vegas or taken delivery now.
The problem is I can get a brand new 2020 Zl1 1LE in the A10 transmission for 61k. Is the GT500 worth the premium with even and MSRP deal base model costing 80K? I've driven the Manual ZLE (for short) and loved it. That being said I bought a GT350 instead. Mostly because it felt more special and it was something very different than what i currently owned and I got it for a better deal. At the time 68K was the best ZLE deal out there and I paid 55900 OTD for a 2019 GT350.
Performance wise the cars I think are going to be very very close. Ford says 3.3 0-60 and 10.7 1/4 mile. We've seen 3.3 via stangmode and 10.6 twice now. Motor trend says 3.6 and 11.4 in their testing which is close to their ZL1 testing of 3.3 and 11.4. Both on unprepared surfaces as MT does. The 500 puts down 760hp so it's up by 110 but it's down 25lbs of torque and it weighs close to 400lbs more depending on your source being Ford or a kid on youtube. All in all it points to a very close match up. The ZLE has a big wang that produces I believe slightly more down force than the Fords and does so with out adding 18500 dollars to the equation. It also wears massive 325 wide tires out back that I can say from experience hook very well even in first gear. The Ford has the Dual clutch which by all accounts is phenomenal. The A10 Zl1 is also by all accounts amazing.....see the most recent lightning lap testing. The ZLE has proven on track performance at the Ring and many others. The GT500 no doubt in my mind will be as good or very close and perhaps slightly better in the CFTP variety but it seems Ford has no interest in official lap time testing and for whatever reason other publications aren't sharing the numbers either. Ford will be and is faster in the 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and probably the standing mile. After that it's limited to 180 whereas the ZLE tops out officially at 199 with it's non 1LE brother at 202. Who cares? I do a little bit as somebody who has taken his Hellcat to the Kennedy Space center for 2 mile runs and has had both Cats well past the 180mph mark on more than one occasion. Is it that important? No....but it's another measuring stick for the comparison. Even with the GT500 being definitively faster in the 1/4 its worth noting after years of trying ZL1 owners have only managed 10.9s in a stock form much to their dismay and even on a drag radial. Relevant because the ZL1 has good traction control and torque management that helps it hook up in the real world but that hurt it on a prepped surface. I wonder if the Gt500 will be the same or if it will truly benefit from a Drag Radial. The Hellcat is the opposite. It NEEDS a drag radial and benefits significantly from it.
I've seen both interiors. The Camaros recaros are a bit nicer being electrically adjustable and heated and cooled but I rather like the interior of my 2019 GT350 with the carbon fiber and the GT500s is a bit nicer with the better recaros. All in all I think its a wash. The visibility is TERRIBLE in the camaro but I've driven it with no issues and I'm not buying the car to go sight seeing in. The ride is not so great but IMHO not so bad either. The 500 will no doubt be more livable on the street though and certainly for passengers.
All this being said and if you are still with me (thank you) I think the GT500 is the better car and like the 350 will feel more special. But is it 20-60K more special? At the high end of that is room for a nice truck or a significant down payment on say a 65 Cobra (replica of course BackDraft of Superformance) or Ariel atom. Then of course there is the trying to get one game. All rational thinking points me to the ZL1 but this isn't a rational thing.....this is the need for speed and the passion for automobiles. Something greater that the 500 will come eventually. It may even be soon with the C8 Z06. The mental debate continues. The greatest mustang ever built or the greatest Camaro ever built? I have no brand loyalty but I do love and respect Carol Shelby and the history tied to the car even though it's very much Ford Performance product now. Let's not forget also, a Cobra is much cooler than alphabet soup. Interested in constructive thoughts.....hell at this point even A-hole comments would be entertaining.
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If you can't wait. Only you can answer the value question. Performance, the Stang. Value in my mind. The camaro. Im a cheap skate. Good luck.