Help! Too much power with Whipple or Sai Li Kit Upgrade needed (6 months of issues)

[RussTang]

So any help will be greatly appreciated. I own a 2016 Mustang Gt, gen 2 whipple, and a cobrajet cold air intake, headers, exhaust, sai li dual return style system with id1000s and am runnin about 14lbs of boost on the 3.25 pulley and
E85, good for about 845hp. The basic issue with the car is if i make a short pull like 3rd gear, 5000-7800 rpm the car pulls strong and no real issues. In 4th gear or any longer gear any time i try n make a long pull 4000-8000 every time at 7k the car will immediately lose power and i watch the car pull all the timing out, (think 23 degrees to about 3 degrees). It happened a few times and i was told it could be a dead fuel pump. So we went to the dyno and just tried a long pull to try n log and diagnose the issue. Well as the car revved to 7k sure enough the fuel all went away, the fuel regulator needle was actually bouncing around badly. We pulled the hat and tested the pumps and sure enough one pump was dead. We checked the gas tank and the prefilter, (of which both were clean) . So we assumed maybe it was just a bad fuel pump. We replaced the dual pump hat with another brand new sai li hat and dyno tuned the car again. The car ran great and no issues were found. The car drove fine for about a week when all of a sudden on a long 4th gear pull the car killed timing at 7k. So i thought well maybe i have some messed up wiring or something else is goin on. I had the wiring checked by a professional and the only things he found were the grounds were bolted to a painted surface, so we sanded down the surface to bare metal and reattached them. The other thing was that the vacuum line for the regulator was pretty loose. We put everything back together and then tested both fuel pumps by unplugging one pump and watchin the regulator drop and plugging a pump in and watching the regulator go back up. Also we could hear both pumps kick on. So we thought we were good.......until i drove the car about a mile away. First pull in third gear i mashed the gas in third and the car pulled so hard it scared the hell out of my passenger and he wanted out. We then went for the dreaded long pull of fourth gear and the car pulled stronger and stronger and then 7k hit and it completely crapped out. Same issue as before. So now i have no idea if the sai li kits maxed out (he personally has people runnin these systems with similar mods makin 900+ ), or if i have somethin in my tune thats not allowing the car to rev past 7k without pulling massive degrees of power. Anybody ever had these experiences? and if not, anyone on here ever diy bigger pumps instead of sais gt500 pumps into his kit with bigger lines? If so can someone help me piece together an upgrade kit or a way i can diy the system myself. I live in southern louisiana and will gladly pay someone to upgrade this system for me and show me whats wrong with this kit. I could just buy the triple pump fore innovations kit and id1300s but id rather not pay full price and spend another 4 grand after ive already spent 2 grand on two seperate fuel systems. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as well!
-Thanks
Russ
@nola_rustang

 

[Boduke0220]

You’re just asking too much out of that fuel system. I think you can replace the pumps in that hat with better ones but I am not sure which to go with

 

[sigintel]

That sounds like insufficient conductor/wire.
Get some phat stranded 4 gauge or better.
Use a relay for each pump or one massive 3x load relay to keep voltage drop across relay down

Example:
IF, and only if, you ran 10 foot dedicated positive lead and 10 foot dedicated negative lead DIRECTLY to the hat with no relays or other sources of high current resistance, then and only then could you assume:

8AWG 6-12% voltage loss at 50 amps instantaneous

6AWG 4-7% voltage loss at 50 amps instantaneous

4AWG 3-4% voltage loss at 50 amps instantaneous.

As you drop voltage, pump has to draw waaaay more current to accomplish same work output and this risks damaging pump windings and increasing their resistance. Sounds like you are cooking the pump windings until the resistance goes nonlinear and they start tripping thermal breakers or tripping the ECU into shutdown.

If you use 8AWG both as dedicated ground return AND positive, and have a 40A relay EACH pump, you are possibly still giving up as much as 6-18% of your pump capacity.

Can you say what wire guage/ AWM/ AWG is on the wire or post pics?

You could also run a DMM/voltmeter at the pump terminals during a pull to see the voltage start to drop (use a min hold gauge and try avoiding WOT bar ditch testing like Ive managed while reading a meter/DMM, lol). However, repeated leaning out a motor sounds extremely expensive vs $100 in proper wiring. Lets us know!

 

[RussTang]

That sounds like insufficient conductor/wire.
Get some phat stranded 4 gauge or better.
Use a relay for each pump or one massive 3x load relay to keep voltage drop across relay down

Example:
IF, and only if, you ran 10 foot dedicated positive lead and 10 foot dedicated negative lead DIRECTLY to the hat with no relays or other sources of high current resistance, then and only then could you assume:

8AWG 6-12% voltage loss at 50 amps instantaneous

6AWG 4-7% voltage loss at 50 amps instantaneous

4AWG 3-4% voltage loss at 50 amps instantaneous.

As you drop voltage, pump has to draw waaaay more current to accomplish same work output and this risks damaging pump windings and increasing their resistance. Sounds like you are cooking the pump windings until the resistance goes nonlinear and they start tripping thermal breakers or tripping the ECU into shutdown.

If you use 8AWG both as dedicated ground return AND positive, and have a 40A relay EACH pump, you are possibly still giving up as much as 6-18% of your pump capacity.

Can you say what wire guage/ AWM/ AWG is on the wire or post pics?

You could also run a DMM/voltmeter at the pump terminals during a pull to see the voltage start to drop (use a min hold gauge and try avoiding WOT bar ditch testing like Ive managed while reading a meter/DMM, lol). However, repeated leaning out a motor sounds extremely expensive vs $100 in proper wiring. Lets us know!

Thanks for the advice guys, ill put some pics up later today of the wiring i know there isnt any really thick wire in there.

 

[Rehaume]

I am from Canada and i got the same problem then you!!
If you fond the trouble i will be happy for you!!
And i will appreciate your help!!Thanks
[email protected]