Help me please: I have suspension mods but still feels meh

[TeeLew]

My car was unpredictable on a high speed sweeper. It gave the same feeling everytime I ran that curve. The cure was adding PP braces in the front and steeda stop the hop kit in the rear. It still felt a bit nervous so I also installed stiffer springs B6 dampers and just recently, poly bushings.

The rear of these cars move around.

Norm gave a great description of what is going on with FORD's IRS.

The toe and camber for each wheel change differently and cause an uneasy feeling to the driver. Due to the piss poor design.

Criticize the design all you want, but the reality is that a lot of people are making it work, including Ford teams with their GT4. That car has produced more than its fair share of wins against very real competition. Admittedly, it's not the way I'd design it if I were starting from a clean sheet, but, regardless of shortcomings, it can be made to work.

Describe your high-speed sweeper. Is it on a track or pubic roads? What speed, bumps, road camber, pavement changes, elevation, grip level, etc are we talking about? Sometimes it's less the car and more the corner. For instance, if a corner starts on-camber, but finishes off-camber, there's going to be a balance shift as you go through.

The only time I really lost the rear of my car was after putting camber in the front, but not changing the rear (I think it had about -0.8* from the factory). At that point, when it would roll, I'd get on the rear tire sidewall and it would have a fairly abrupt snap-loose and a poor recovery. After dialing some negative camber into the rear, though, that issue went away. It wasn't a design issue as much as one of setup. What are your camber & toe numbers? There might be something there to find the stability you lack.

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[1958cyclist]

Well, trying to be your own engineer will always be a challenge. I started with the PP1, which if one has any inkling they may want to track their car is the least of the factory options you'd want to start with. Second, contact a shop who has loads of experience with upgrades for the S550, Steeda, Vorshlag, etc. They have engineers and racers in their organizations who have tested, tested, and tested some more.

Be the beneficiary of their knowledge...much less expensive for you this way. Of the modes I've had done, I have to say the wheelset, (ForgeStar F-14's 19" x 11" square setup, 305/30/19 Michelin 4S, and camber plates have made the biggest difference...stickier tires will increase corning adhesion more but with also more wear). As I was adding the camber plates, I added GT 350R springs...the stiffest springs that'll work with stock struts and shocks, then finally a "proper alignment"...again suggested. The biggest tire footprint you can fit makes a big difference. Remember, these are not feather weight vehicles.

These additions made a huge difference, particularly when one looks at the $$$ invested.

Oh and the brakes,...I can't believe I forgot to mention those 6 piston Brembos up front!!! Tracking a car...you'll definitely want these. Repeated high effort braking...yes please!

 

[Genxer]

I remembering getting to drive some GTIs back in the 80s, they were a hoot. I'm sure they are way different now.

 

[Dave2013M3]

true, because practically nobody makes that size. There's no good reason to be stuck on 305/35.

Im not as I am running 275/35/19 and 295/35/19. However 285/305 is a popular setup with the S550 crowd in 35 aspect.

 

[TeeLew]

I remembering getting to drive some GTIs back in the 80s, they were a hoot. I'm sure they are way different now.

A 1983 GTI didn't have much power, but they were an absolute barrel of monkeys to drive.

 

[K4fxd]

Second, contact a shop who has loads of experience with upgrades for the S550, Steeda, Vorshlag, etc. They have engineers and racers in their organizations who have tested, tested, and tested some more.

Exactly what I did, plus asking stupid questions here. I say stupid because I get flamed quite often. By the way I can now take that sweeper at 100 plus without moving the steering wheel. The car is planted, just what I want out of a car. When I first got the car I was having to seesaw the wheel to keep the car straight at 80 MPH

Criticize the design all you want, but the reality is that a lot of people are making it work

Yes I did make it work. I'm complaining because I shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars to get a planted car.

I'm too damn old to have to drive it like I'm racing for money and to keep a ride.

It may not be all of them but my car was worse in a corner than any 60's or 70's muscle car I owned. Those on G70 14's.

63 409 SS impala, 70 440 Roadrunner 70 396 SS nova 73 340 Dart Sport

 

[1958cyclist]

Exactly what I did, plus asking stupid questions here. I say stupid because I get flamed quite often. By the way I can now take that sweeper at 100 plus without moving the steering wheel. The car is planted, just what I want out of a car. When I first got the car I was having to seesaw the wheel to keep the car straight at 80 MPH


Yes I did make it work. I'm complaining because I shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars to get a planted car.

I'm too damn old to have to drive it like I'm racing for money and to keep a ride.

It may not be all of them but my car was worse in a corner than any 60's or 70's muscle car I owned. Those on G70 14's.

63 409 SS impala, 70 440 Roadrunner 70 396 SS nova 73 340 Dart Sport

Well, I have to agree with TeeLew regarding the suspension design of the S550 being quite impressive in it's basic form. I didn't realize how much so until I found Edmund's S550 Suspension Walk Around tour. This engineering tour of both the front and rear suspensions and how and why they are designed, will allay any concerns about their design...it's really very well done. Like any vehicle designed to meet certain price points, what model you chose will determine the level of performance one can expect.

 

[K4fxd]

Well, I have to agree with TeeLew regarding the suspension design of the S550 being quite impressive in it's basic form. I didn't realize how much so until I found Edmund's S550 Suspension Walk Around tour. This engineering tour of both the front and rear suspensions and how and why they are designed, will allay any concerns about their design...it's really very well done. Like any vehicle designed to meet certain price points, what model you chose will determine the level of performance one can expect.

Well we can have differing opinions on how a "performance" car should handle from the factory. I don't care if it is a base or an R model. It is 2020 not 1960.

In no universe should a pick up truck be more stable in a curve than a so called performance car.

I test drove a 2020 base model off a local lot, it was just as squirrely as my POS when stock. Maybe ya'll don't push the car hard enough to feel it.

I will keep looking for a PP car to test drive just to see if they are better.

 

[Dana Pants]

Take that pickup truck to the track and see how off pace it is. My Jetta sportwagen is a lot easier to drive than my Mustang too. But if you actually autocross it it’s like.... many many many seconds slower.

 

[galaxy]

A 1983 GTI didn't have much power, but they were an absolute barrel of monkeys to drive.

Hahaha, this post caught my attention and I just had to add...I have been taught my whole life “it’s a 100x more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to have to drive a fast car slow”.

 

[K4fxd]

Take that pickup truck to the track and see how off pace it is.

No doubt. But I guarantee I could do lap after lap within a tenth of a second.

I couldn't do that in my stock mustang because I was fighting the wheel. Road course not autoX. In the parking lots the stock mustang was fine. It's when the legs get stretched out the short comings show up.

 

[1958cyclist]

Hahaha, this post caught my attention and I just had to add...I have been taught my whole life “it’s a 100x more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to have to drive a fast car slow”.

So true...and this has largely to do with ability, and more specifically being comfortable nearing limits. The best drivers because of their repository of experience can find these and operate there quicker and "easier" than those who are along the development spectrum.

 

[TeeLew]

Exactly what I did, plus asking stupid questions here. I say stupid because I get flamed quite often. By the way I can now take that sweeper at 100 plus without moving the steering wheel. The car is planted, just what I want out of a car. When I first got the car I was having to seesaw the wheel to keep the car straight at 80 MPH


Yes I did make it work. I'm complaining because I shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars to get a planted car.

I'm too damn old to have to drive it like I'm racing for money and to keep a ride.

It may not be all of them but my car was worse in a corner than any 60's or 70's muscle car I owned. Those on G70 14's.

63 409 SS impala, 70 440 Roadrunner 70 396 SS nova 73 340 Dart Sport

I'm not trying to flame you. I'm just trying to have a discussion. You have very strong opinions which you state as fact and that makes it tough to have much of a conversation. Further, I just don't share you opinion that the stock suspension is such an awful thing. Can it be improved upon? Absolutely. Is it less stable than a 60's or 70's anything? No, it's not even a comparison. Just running the 60's era cars I had (or the 70's era my friends owned) to 100 mph was an event. Any real cornering at that speed would require one's undivided attention. That's even before we've decided to try to brake with undersized front-only discs or 4-wheel drums.

You've previously criticized your car for not feeling like another which costs twice as much (a Corvette). I don't see that as a particularly fair point of comparison, but now that you've changing bushings or whatever and are more comfortable, you're still into the car for _much_ less than a Corvette. When you look at it from that perspective, can you fairly criticize the Mustang? It's the quintessential low-buck GT/Pony car. It's 80% of a car and how the final 20% ends up is up to you. Ford kind of fell into this business model with the Fox chassis and they've used it for the last 40 years.

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I ride mountain bikes. I have a 29" hard tail bike which is OK, but nothing special. Some descents (particularly big drops) I just can't ride, but my friends with full-suspension bikes eat that stuff up. I fall back on the 'meh, hardtail' and take an easier route or walk. Then we had a guy who's good join us, but all he had was a late 90's Schwinn 26" hard tail. It turns out this guy can not only ride all the big shit, but he's able go fast enough to out-ride most everyone. The important difference among us was clearly not the bike.

 

[TeeLew]

No doubt. But I guarantee I could do lap after lap within a tenth of a second.

That's unlikely. It's not impossible, but, having spent a reasonable amount of time in Missouri, I would have to see it to accept it.

 

[shogun32]

I will keep looking for a PP car to test drive just to see if they are better.

a MR car is better. A PP1 car the improvement is not worth the price tag since you'll have to toss the dampers anyway. The Mustang is a 'kit' car. If you want good and predictable handling you're looking at ~2 grand in parts to replace the bushings, dampers and add much needed bracing.

Ford could have done a MUCH better job but they chose to ship a 'sporty shaped' 2-seater Taurus sedan. A "sports car" term being applied to the Mustang is 100% marketing lies.

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