Have you blown an engine? If so, what rod (cylinder) failed?

[Fridge]

mag- Look up YOUR OWN POST bagging on Adam..
"Adam telling people all EB engines prior to 5/15 are problematic"

Has the info right there.... page 2

Oh sorry is "on Gen 5"

Oouuu that spicy thread from way back haha
I believe it got locked cause everyone was being so nice to each other.
Here's a link for the lazy http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80015&highlight=Adam+telling

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[Maggneto]

Info on that is on this site. The part numbers have changed. There are pics on here showing the differences...

Part numbers have changed is proof of an engine defect? I guess we can close the book on all this LSPI, low octane, and poor tuning business and thank Woody for his contribution to solving the ecobooms.

Part numbers, pin holes, cracks, block smoothness is that right? Why don't you start your own block version thread instead.

It is strange that block version only impact Adam and a small group or tuners who blame a defect and not LMS but that is far too complicated a subject for some people to understand.

Kindly share which block versions and part numbers are defective, and how we can identified inferior blocks.

How many Cleveland failures have there been this year? Which block versions do they have?

And what about that world record setting UPR Lund eb with a Valencia engine block number 678? Maybe a rough block is better than a smooth block after all.

 

[Juben]

For what it's worth, my VEP 678 took everything I threw at it for 70k miles. It seems like both Mark and UPR had 678 cars that had the crap beat out of them for long periods of time.

I, too, would like a more in-depth understanding to what was problematic within anything prior to the Gen V blocks. I know they changed things like using press-fit plugs vs tapped plugs and similar, but I'd know to know if the block alloy itself was changed, cylinder liners changed, etc.

 

[Woodshop77]

Gee Mag - Since you will never be upgrading your car for fear of going out of Warranty..why should you be listened to at all? You should have purchased a Tesla...less for you to worry about.

Yeah that's right...Ford only changed the blocks going to Adam......LOL

Nice day for a Jet Boat ride......

 

[menaecoboost]

Anyone in Texas dealing with this gas shortage!? If I was ever scared to go boom, it's now lol.

 

[Woodshop77]

:doh:

 

[Maggneto]

For what it's worth, my VEP 678 took everything I threw at it for 70k miles. It seems like both Mark and UPR had 678 cars that had the crap beat out of them for long periods of time.

I, too, would like a more in-depth understanding to what was problematic within anything prior to the Gen V blocks. I know they changed things like using press-fit plugs vs tapped plugs and similar, but I'd know to know if the block alloy itself was changed, cylinder liners changed, etc.

I also have a 678 VEP engine and remember when only early pre 675 Valencia engines were bad, then it was all Valencia engines are bad, then it was the early Cleveland engines pre 5/15, and now it's all but V5 Cleveland engines,. It is a never ending goose chase with this engine versioning theory.

If there is a defect why aren't there any stock motors blowing up, why only tuned engines? I have heard stories about stock 2.3 2nd hand only, besides the one M6G member on our list there is nothing online that I can find about stock failures.

I can find plenty of stock failures on all EB engines except the 2.3 which is used in multiple Ford and Lincoln vehicles. If a defect exists there would be more reports online of stock failures.

The reason a defect hasn't been found by now is probably because a defect doesn't exist and the more likely cause is a combination of multiple factors such as a tuned engine, a weakness in the design that is shared between V and C and a catalyst like a low octane event that causes an LSPI like event.

And Woody, yes it was a perfect day for boating, however, my dog is dying of cancer and has only days left to live so I refuse to leave her side.

 

[Woodshop77]

No matter how the bickering on this engine thing goes, I am sorry to hear about your dog.

 

[smdandb2]

#1 and #2 show the most knock count, #3 trails those cylinders slightly, and #4 never does get any knock count. Could be that fuel is fed starting at the rear cylinder. The center cylinders will get the most heat as there siamese to the rear and front cylinders, where as #1 and #4 should have better cooling with more water around the cylinder. I would assume that the two cylinders that would have issues would be #2 and #3. It all has to do with knock count, the cylinder that knocks the most is the one that's gonna have a problem, hence why #4 never has any issues. This is just my observation on my own car, other cars could be different. Always over octane people, and dont ask your tuner for to much low engine speed TQ.

On my car, #4 is the culprit that shows knock first. It also has the most negative timing corrections.

By most, I mean I think the most I saw was -2.37 or something. And that was on a almost 100f day.

I rarely see any issues on 2 and 3. Sometimes 1 gets a bit pissy.

Now that the weather has calmed it's tits a bit, I am rarely seeing any negative corrections. I usually only see them after getting stuck in traffic and everything is heat soaked, but that is almost to be expected.

I don't think knock and negative timing corrections are the cause of the majority of the motors going boom. I am more on the side thinking the balance shafts play a role in the motors popping. I don't think it is a coincidence that #3 is the majority going boom, and that happens to be where the balance shafts are driven from. I just wish they were easier to remove.

 

[Bull Run]

This article (http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/low-...the-mazdaspeed-disi-and-ford-ecoboost-motors/) seems to have a good explanation on LSPIs and ways to prevent them. Your thoughts?

I heard that knock sensors can't detect pre-ignitions (http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html). This article also has good description on damage caused by detonation vs. pre-ignition. If this is true, can this explain cases with blown engines where everything seemed fine before the "super knock" blew their engines due to LSPI? This would be concerning since pre-ignition can cause more damage than run of the mill knocks, and ECU won't be able to compensate for it.

Also, it will be interesting know if anyone with blown engine were running colder plugs since hot or melted plugs can also cause pre-ignition.

Edited to include highlights from the last article:

"Typically, that is what we see in passenger car engines. The engines will typically live for long periods of time under detonation. In fact, we actually run a lot of piston tests where we run the engine at the torque peak, induce moderate levels of detonation deliberately. Based on our resulting production design, the piston should pass those tests without any problem; the pistons should be robust enough to survive. If, however, under circumstances due to overheating or poor fuel, the spark plug tip overheats and induces pre-ignition, it's obviously not going to survive. If we see a failure, it probably is a detonation induced pre-ignition situation.

I would urge any experimenter to be cautious using automotive based engines in other applications. In general, engines producing .5 HP/in3 (typical air-cooled aircraft engines) can be forgiving (as leaning to peak EGT, etc.). But at 1.0 HP/in3 (very typical of many high performance automotive conversions) the window for calibration induced engine damage is much less forgiving. Start out rich, retarded and with cold plugs and watch the EGTs!"

 

[Glenn G]

I'm really with @Juben and a few others in thinking it's the balance shafts. Bad gas causing knock or LSPI would have the failures spread over the 4 cylinders. Bad rods or improper assembly should also have a more even distribution. I'm still on the search for a blown engine with the BS deleted on this or any other platform and so far no hits.

 

[Juben]

I'd love for someone to throw in a set of upgraded rods and BSD to beat on it and see how long it'd last. Even an all stock BSD car would be good to see.

 

[Glenn G]

I'd love for someone to throw in a set of upgraded rods and BSD to beat on it and see how long it'd last. Even an all stock BSD car would be good to see.

That will be mine as soon as the parts arrive. Rods will have to wait until I build the engine.

 

[Maggneto]

I'm really with @Juben and a few others in thinking it's the balance shafts. Bad gas causing knock or LSPI would have the failures spread over the 4 cylinders. Bad rods or improper assembly should also have a more even distribution. I'm still on the search for a blown engine with the BS deleted on this or any other platform and so far no hits.

Actually, bad gas causing knock along with increased pressures from a tune would have the greatest negative impact on the weakest link, #3 which is exactly what we are seeing.

 

[Turbong]

Here is a FB poll, although not a big sample and inconclusive I thought I would add to this anyway.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_1u4Hy77EndTFkwVFcyMFMxcW8

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