Has the ICE been given a reprieve?

[TrackMeisterWannabe]

At the risk of pissing off the mods with a thread that could be considered political, could today's West Virginia victory in the Supreme Court postpone the demise of the internal combustion engine?

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[jcttraveler]

Maybe, but I think the lack of EV chargers throughout the country in time to support people who want to drive more than a few hundred miles will be a bigger factor. Read an article in this month's Wired magazine on the topic. They don't have the number of chargers they need, nor the ability to properly maintain the ones they have, and then there's still an issue of compatibility. A hybrid might be in my future one day, but I'm not yet ready for an EV.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Anyone who thought EVs are the answer to “pollution” is kidding themselves… because it’s not the long term solution or viable option to replace ICE.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Anyone who thought EVs are the answer to “pollution” is kidding themselves… because it’s not the long term solution or viable option to replace ICE.

Indeed. But sadly, the EV push isn't about pollution, but about money and politics. Pollution is just a convenient excuse.

 

[sk47]

Hello; The idea is an EV + solar, wind, hydro & all = clean energy/transportation. Such is the fantasied dream and in truth is not a bad concept. So far however it is not a full baked reality. Several critical components not yet up to the minimum needed overall. Those critical components have been listed many times in posts.

And yes, a big portion of the rationalization behind the current push is pollution laced with climate change. The idea being pushed is the danger of pollution/climate change is bad enough that any discomfort we get from the new policies is worth it. Worth it to have a better world even if that better world is 50 to 100 years away. Thing is, for me, such a tradeoff could be worth considering if it was true. I have already spent decades trying to lessen my personal environmental impact some of which I have posted about.

Fossil fuels are not clean to be sure. Lots of improvements in auto emissions over time. Some improvement in coal fired power plants including using natural gas replacement which is naturally cleaner.
A thing is the EV when considering it's all around impact and not just the limited end use is not all that clean. I resubmit the Volvo links.
Volvo says manufacturing an EV generates 70% more emissions than its ICE counterpart - AutoBuzz.my

Volvo_carbonfootprintreport.pdf (volvocars.com)

Based on what we all went thru during covid it does seem some in power got a taste for the sort of power they could wield. Too many examples of the use and implementation of power just because they could, to be easily dismissed. Things done with no practical rational behind them.

Enough from me almost. I have been driving less the last few months. I would be duly impressed if the top dogs were giving up their private jets or just that jet travel was on the decline in general. (Declined by choice, not from staffing shortages and the like) I may be wrong but would not be surprised to learn that jet travel is the most polluting form of travel.

 

[Bikeman315]

At the risk of pissing off the mods with a thread that could be considered political, could today's West Virginia victory in the Supreme Court postpone the demise of the internal combustion engine?

No. The die has been already cast worldwide and one lone US court victory will change nothing.

 

[sk47]

No. The die has been already cast worldwide and one lone US court victory will change nothing.

Hello; You repeat this sort of viewpoint often. No doubt there will be EV's around. Already are a small percentage in use. Been well over 20 years since the first hybrids with the large government rebates. Even with those rebates the hybrids have been more expensive. Now with more rebates and the artificial increases in fuel costs likely a few more folks will buy one.

My plan is to hold off a while longer. I do not see this as a done deal. I may wind up driving an aged ICE a few more years or being old as I am, just run out of time. In fact the more of you who have EV's will be less demand on the fuel I need. Just hope I do not have too many brown outs or black outs.

My plan B yet to be acted upon is to find an older ICE car or truck. New enough to have fuel injection for good engine management and starting. Old enough to have the fewest other tech add on stuff. Already had a few go arounds with tech problems.

Plan C is if an EV ever shows up at a reasonable price (cheaper than a similar ICE) and very basic (with few tech gadgets: gadgets added to vehicles just because they can with nothing to do with driving.) Many of my week to week trips to places like the grocery or hardware are only 30 miles or less. A few up to 50 miles. A very few of 300 miles in a day. Guess i ought to double the range/power requirements during winter.

Please post a picture of your EV.

 

[Bikeman315]

Hello; You repeat this sort of viewpoint often. No doubt there will be EV's around. Already are a small percentage in use. Been well over 20 years since the first hybrids with the large government rebates. Even with those rebates the hybrids have been more expensive. Now with more rebates and the artificial increases in fuel costs likely a few more folks will buy one.

My plan is to hold off a while longer. I do not see this as a done deal. I may wind up driving an aged ICE a few more years or being old as I am, just run out of time. In fact the more of you who have EV's will be less demand on the fuel I need. Just hope I do not have too many brown outs or black outs.

My plan B yet to be acted upon is to find an older ICE car or truck. New enough to have fuel injection for good engine management and starting. Old enough to have the fewest other tech add on stuff. Already had a few go arounds with tech problems.

Plan C is if an EV ever shows up at a reasonable price (cheaper than a similar ICE) and very basic (with few tech gadgets: gadgets added to vehicles just because they can with nothing to do with driving.) Many of my week to week trips to places like the grocery or hardware are only 30 miles or less. A few up to 50 miles. A very few of 300 miles in a day. Guess i ought to double the range/power requirements during winter.

Please post a picture of your EV.

I repeat this viewpoint because it is realistic. I am a lifelong performance car enthusiast but I have also watched the world wanting to move away from fossil fuels for the past half century. At the moment that means electric. Could there be something else down the road? Of course, but for today it's electric. But the question wasn't about EV's it was about the demise of the ICE. My answer stands.

And by the way, I'll post a picture of my EV if you post a picture of your S550 Mustang.

 

[ice445]

IMO it's more sinister than that, what's coming is the end of personal car ownership for the masses. Only the rich and upper middle class will be able to afford electric cars soon. Everyone else will be relegated to taking the bus.

 

[Bikeman315]

IMO it's more sinister than that, what's coming is the end of personal car ownership for the masses. Only the rich and upper middle class will be able to afford electric cars soon. Everyone else will be relegated to taking the bus.

And, of course, they will be electric!

 

[Deleted member 35644]

Not excited about a future that may include an EV, for a few reasons. Driving from Dallas to Galveston would prove to need an extended pit stop. I'm not sure right now if I'd be totally comfortable parking one in my garage now that the fires are making headlines. I guess at 52, I'm racing ICE to the grave. Hope I don't have to get one due to lack of viable options

 

[sk47]

Hello; There is a concept I know of as "opportunity cost". Applies perhaps best to money. The idea as I understand it is taking one action can prevent other actions at another time.
Say two folks with identical jobs spend their excess money differently. One saves and does not impulse buy nor purchase toys such as boats or motorcycles on credit. The other does the opposite living from paycheck to paycheck and carrying as much debt as possible. Along comes a golden financial opportunity for both. Having gone all in on the paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle the opportunity cannot be taken advantage of by the one person.

Please feel free to post other examples of an opportunity cost. Being married vs. dating might be an example. There are likely many. Point is if you go all in or in too deep in one direction then you can wind up stuck when a better option happens along.

Some may have already copped to what I am driving at. Those devoted to the current "green energy" forms plus the LI-ion battery EV forms have pretty much locked into those techs as they exist. How many times have we heard that there is no need to hope for better batteries in the future as the "best" already exist.?? That the future is now and already exists in a mature form??

There is an opportunity cost in at least two ways. First is some different tech or discovery which might be better than the current "green" infrastructure and Li-ion battery EV likely will not have a chance. For example, the power lines ranging overhead all around. That method of stringing lines and cables is too entrenched and too expensive to replace for another method to have a chance to be used.
Second opportunity cost is financial. Contrary to what some wish think there is a limit to spending. If too much money is plowed into one sort of energy form it cannot be un-spent to pay if something better comes long.

Back in the early 2000's things seemed to be coming to a crisis point. Peak oil talk was a real concern with prospects of severe shortages looming. Then a new tech enabled recovery of lots of oil and natural gas. A blessing of sorts in that we had a supply of energy which would last long enough to give us a chance to explore and experiment to find other solutions. Solar, wind and such have a place in the search. Battery EV's have a place in the search. However, locking into just these few too early in the game may prevent a superior tech from ever being used.

That some other superior tech may come about is a "someday" scenario some may claim. a promise of possible future developments which are not in place just yet. Thing is i keep hearing how the currently favored "green energy" and li-ion EV forms will "someday" have all their issues worked out.

My thinking some decades ago was we could use the cushion of abundant natural gas, coal and oil to be an energy base while an open search for replacements took place. However I find up us in a premature battle of wills. Some for going "all-in" for one restricted set of techs and at the same time doing damage to the only proven energy base we have.

I get the big bad boogie man threat of climate being used as a rationale. Kill fossil fuels now to save the world sort of thinking. This is something already cussed and discussed in other threads in detail. Fear was used to good effect during Covid recently and seems clear some use of fear is behind the "green energy" agenda. I even get that there are serious real environmental issues we face and am not simply dismissing the issues. But to me, it will not help to make dumb choices just because we have fear. A scene from the first Jurassic Park film comes to mind. One character is told to not move and maybe be safe. He runs and the T-rex eats him. Nothing wrong with being afraid. I am afraid for us all but try to make sensible decisions.

Sorry for the too long post. Back to my starting point. We may have an opportunity cost or few happening currently.

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