Handling

baazooka

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
85
Reaction score
39
Location
Cincinnati
First Name
Andrew
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT 6sp
Steeda red differential inserts (still on the fence about this)
How are you liking the bushing inserts? Does it improve throttle/driving feel?

 

baazooka

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
85
Reaction score
39
Location
Cincinnati
First Name
Andrew
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT 6sp
add the IRS bracing to the K-brace and complete the package. big difference...
I have bmrs cradle lockout, is this what you are referring to?
 

thompsje

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
86
Reaction score
103
Location
MA
First Name
Jeff
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT Premium
Thanks for the feedback, heard good things about the front K brace in regards to steering feel. The bumpsteer kit and some of the smaller linkages seem pricey for what they are.
The other things you might want to consider are the PP control arms, eg - these guys.

https://www.steeda.com/Ford-Perform...-Front-Control-Arm-Kit-2015-2017-161-M-3075-F

I have a non-PP car, but also know somebody who works at Ford and can talk to the Mustang guys. The suggested list for the base upgrades was/is

Rear Subframe lockouts (BMR CB005, etc)
Front brace (Steeda or BMR)
PP Control Arms
Upper K/strut brace
Pre-2018 cars should upgrade to a ball-joint rear toe link
Front bushing in the rear LCAs should be upgraded to the GT350 part
Shocks/struts/bars

Pretty much all of that can be found in various places here too, but it was a nice list to have. I'm about 1/2 way through since I didn't want to pull apart the whole front end for the control arms, just to do it again for springs/shocks. It also looks like that bushing swap in the rear LCA can be a real pain, so I need to figure out whether that's worth it or not.
 

baazooka

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
85
Reaction score
39
Location
Cincinnati
First Name
Andrew
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT 6sp
The other things you might want to consider are the PP control arms, eg - these guys.

https://www.steeda.com/Ford-Perform...-Front-Control-Arm-Kit-2015-2017-161-M-3075-F

I have a non-PP car, but also know somebody who works at Ford and can talk to the Mustang guys. The suggested list for the base upgrades was/is

Rear Subframe lockouts (BMR CB005, etc)
Front brace (Steeda or BMR)
PP Control Arms
Upper K/strut brace
Pre-2018 cars should upgrade to a ball-joint rear toe link
Front bushing in the rear LCAs should be upgraded to the GT350 part
Shocks/struts/bars

Pretty much all of that can be found in various places here too, but it was a nice list to have. I'm about 1/2 way through since I didn't want to pull apart the whole front end for the control arms, just to do it again for springs/shocks. It also looks like that bushing swap in the rear LCA can be a real pain, so I need to figure out whether that's worth it or not.
Yeah lmao I've read through the entire thread for just the rear toe bearing and people are buying new tools just to do it. Not to mention the cost adding up.

Thanks!
 

accel

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Threads
63
Messages
1,068
Reaction score
184
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
'17 GT PP
So far I converted to squared setup wheels (well known SVE bundle from lmr).

I have 2017 GT PP (US) and I am not sure how this translates into 2018+ PP1/PP2 suspension setups. I never felt suspension or shocks to be bad in my particular car. Feels nice on streets, I also have one autocross and one hpde in my history. Plan on having another one soon to test my squared wheels/tires.

So, anyways, my only gripe in the past was staggered tires thing as the way I've learned it - fronts and rears provide equivalent grip per square inch only initially. Once tires wear (and they are not rotateable) front grip becomes more and rear grip becomes less.

Here's some chronology:

a) An autocross event where I'm left fairly excited about car's handling and predictability. Tires are sort of "new" at that point. I remember the front end feeling a little heavy and understeering in slow turns, but the car being fairly neutral in sweepers with ability to introduce some oversteer with throttle. Everything was very predictable and under control.

b) A year or so later I'm loosing control over a car at streets - without even trying - nothing nothing nothing stupid, _slight_ acceleration in the curve, nothing even remotely close to what I've done in (a) - fishtailing but catching it eventually - total surprise after (a). After inspection I determine rear tires to be worn where frontswere about +/-50%. So I change _rears_ and

c) Attend car control clinic where we make the car loose control and then recover all day long. I cannot reproduce (b) in any possible way. The car mostly understeers and it takes some big efforts to make it loose rear end. A little frustrating. Also, the car does not behave like in (a) either, it is more of an understeer car overall under all conditions.

Anyways, besides tires, should I be worried about some suspension elements on my _2017_PP_? I only will do some non competitive autocrossing once in a while. This is the substitute for a spirited canyon driving for me. I enjoy car control feeling more than results and since I do not do this regularly I cannot even pretend to be somewhat competitive from driver skills prospective.

My ideal desired behavior is: the car is naturally neutral. It can go into some oversteer with some power application and then go back to neutral when power is reduced.

Sorry for TLDR.

P.S. Edit - this overall staggered thing - I also experienced with a BMW I used to have - equally fresh front and rears - forget about _any_ oversteer, it felt like I autocrossed a fwd Camry. Once rears have some wear over fronts - here you go, some oversteer is there with ability to snap oversteer closer to the end of rears life.
 
Last edited:

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Threads
78
Messages
11,306
Reaction score
7,837
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT+PP, SS+1LE, 2020 F150
Vehicle Showcase
2
So far I converted to squared setup wheels (well known SVE bundle from lmr).

I have 2017 GT PP (US) and I am not sure how this translates into 2018+ PP1/PP2 suspension setups.
check alignment. The Mustang is light in the ass, so under braking you get even lighter in the ass. I think you could use a different front bar.

I'm surprised you don't notice the under-damped nature of the PP1 shocks. I would replace all 4 corners with the FP Track shocks.
 

accel

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Threads
63
Messages
1,068
Reaction score
184
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
'17 GT PP
check alignment. The Mustang is light in the ass, so under braking you get even lighter in the ass. I think you could use a different front bar.

I'm surprised you don't notice the under-damped nature of the PP1 shocks. I would replace all 4 corners with the FP Track shocks.
So you are saying 15-17 PP is 2018 PP1? Yes, I'm surprised by this whole topic and wondered if maybe 15-17 PP was not the same as 18+ PP1.

I will replace shocks for sure once they need to be replaced (right now I'm around 30K and roads here are fairly good) and those will not be OEM PP shocks. Just do not know which ones yet. The car is a DD and I need some balanced comfort.

As far as aftermarket goes - I've done swaybars in my prior FWD cars and in there everyone wanted a stiffer bar in the rear for the car to be more of a neutral and so I was going with adjustable ones to dial in the balance between front and rear. I also had koni yellow shocks that were adjustable in both - height and stiffness. Could have some good DD/autox balanced car. Turns out there's no such shocks anymore....

Anyways - curious what goals should I look for with the front swaybar in rwd mustang?
 
Last edited:

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Threads
78
Messages
11,306
Reaction score
7,837
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT+PP, SS+1LE, 2020 F150
Vehicle Showcase
2
So you are saying 15-17 PP is 2018 PP1?
I believe <18 PP1 is worse than 18+ PP1 as it relates to damping rates

I will replace shocks for sure once they need to be replaced (right now I'm around 30K
I replaced my PP1 shocks within 4 months of brand new purchase, they were that bad. My EB/PP also had it's suspension tossed within 2 months of new purchase - it had the same dampers as the GT/PP. I had Steeda adjustable on for a year and half and right now my fronts are Fortune Auto 510 with 275 springs and Steeda front bar. I need to do some tweaks to the shocks, and I have a full-revalve on deck because FA's damping needs serious help.

The FP Track are not 'harsh' in the least. They and the Bilsteins do a much better job of slow-rate compression damping and more importantly rebound.

If you want to get into adjustable suspension for 'cheap' get the Steeda adjustable fronts in coil-over config, and pick any of FP/Bilsteain/Steeda non-adjustable for rear as long as you keep the spring rate below 900.
 

accel

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Threads
63
Messages
1,068
Reaction score
184
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
'17 GT PP
I replaced my PP1 shocks within 4 months of brand new purchase, they were that bad.
Still remember myself back in days when I was actively autocrossing with wheels, tires, springs, adj. coilovers, shocks. sway bars and all, multiple setups. And there was that other guy, same car, 100% stock beating the hell out of not just my times but other cars that should've been faster than him in theory.

Anyways... my current line of thought is - I have a GT, but Mustang has these beautiful gt350 and R family members - why not reuse suspension elements from those? That should bring in some knowledge and time spent on those car R&D. Or at least get an aftermarket set that is a close adaptation of those for a GT? Is there such thing?
 

bnightstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Threads
14
Messages
1,495
Reaction score
591
Location
Bulgaria
First Name
Hristofor
Vehicle(s)
2013 Ford Fiesta 1.25i, 2017 GB Ford Mustang GT PP Premium
Vehicle Showcase
1
Still remember myself back in days when I was actively autocrossing with wheels, tires, springs, adj. coilovers, shocks. sway bars and all, multiple setups. And there was that other guy, same car, 100% stock beating the hell out of not just my times but other cars that should've been faster than him in theory.

Anyways... my current line of thought is - I have a GT, but Mustang has these beautiful gt350 and R family members - why not reuse suspension elements from those? That should bring in some knowledge and time spent on those car R&D. Or at least get an aftermarket set that is a close adaptation of those for a GT? Is there such thing?
Bilshtain B6 of FPTP dumpers + BMR 083 springs is efectively same rates/suspension setup as gt350r minus the lovely Magneride dumpers. And Ford is selling an MR handling kit for the MR cars which is very close to what is on PP2/M1/GT350 in terms of MR setup. Overall though even in the GT350R spec which is 240 lb/in front 914 lb/in rear the suspension is too soft for real track car overall though I think the FP Track Pack kit is great for a daily car. IF you want a real track car handing you need expensive coilovers and a lot of spring rate infront in order for the body roll to allow you to run full slick tires. You will see that a lot of the suspension advice here is for the track going crowd and very limited support for the Sunday canyon runner. With that in mind for daily even the PP1 is amazing with very minimal changes.
 

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Threads
78
Messages
11,306
Reaction score
7,837
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT+PP, SS+1LE, 2020 F150
Vehicle Showcase
2
And there was that other guy, same car, 100% stock beating the hell out of not just my times but other cars
By far the biggest variable is the driver. Eg the Stig can embarrass anybody. Lesser drivers reach for tech support rather than learning to extract value from what they have.

But I also know what/how I like a vehicle to behave and since the factory units can't be fixed had to throw them in the trash.

If you have a magneride car then you owe it to yourself to replace the front dampers with R units. And if you're wanting more, to get the aftermarket programmer and create some maps since the provided ones are not up to snuff. @TeeLew has done work on this. There may be race teams or very experienced outfits that have MR maps but I haven't heard of them being published.

Fix all the chassis warts first and the behavior will be much improved. I drove PP1 with MR pre and post. Pre it frankly was lame. Post it was so much better it was shocking.
 
Last edited:

NightmareMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Threads
36
Messages
4,251
Reaction score
2,807
Location
Austin
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT PP
Vehicle Showcase
1
Yeah, the staggered tire and stock aligment tend to understeer until you really get on the gas and force oversteer. Square 10" wheels with 285/35R19 tires and a slightly stiffer rear swaybar (maybe a GT350R rear bar) would neutralize that.

To sharpen up the turnin in general, a stiffer adjustable front bar (on soft) paired slightly stiffer rear bar, and shocks.

You can get Koni yellows for the mustang if you want affordable adjustables. I still like them with stock shocks.

Front camber also really helps the front end work. 2.5 degrees or so would also help you. Set the rear to 1.5 or 1.7 (prefer camber plates)
 

accel

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Threads
63
Messages
1,068
Reaction score
184
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
'17 GT PP
Bilshtain B6 of FPTP dumpers + BMR 083 springs is efectively same rates/suspension setup as gt350r minus the lovely Magneride dumpers. And Ford is selling an MR handling kit for the MR cars which is very close to what is on PP2/M1/GT350 in terms of MR setup. Overall though even in the GT350R spec which is 240 lb/in front 914 lb/in rear the suspension is too soft for real track car overall though I think the FP Track Pack kit is great for a daily car. IF you want a real track car handing you need expensive coilovers and a lot of spring rate infront in order for the body roll to allow you to run full slick tires. You will see that a lot of the suspension advice here is for the track going crowd and very limited support for the Sunday canyon runner. With that in mind for daily even the PP1 is amazing with very minimal changes.
I really like the Idea of buying a package, especially from the place that is associated with a manufacturer. So FR track pack would seem to me like an attractive upgrade that would also keep the car OEMish.

I'd also love to see guides on GT suspension upgrades involving sets of components from Shelby cars.

Unfortunately I find no good reviews on either. They all come down to lowered car looks and driving comfort. Even americanMuscle youtubr review of FR suspension packages involving an engineer is pretty pointless.

The only thing I found was - several track pack adopters mentioned the car tends to understeer and front wheels might skip even at streets. And so they ended up swapping the front with another sway bar which defeats the purpose.
 

bnightstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Threads
14
Messages
1,495
Reaction score
591
Location
Bulgaria
First Name
Hristofor
Vehicle(s)
2013 Ford Fiesta 1.25i, 2017 GB Ford Mustang GT PP Premium
Vehicle Showcase
1
I really like the Idea of buying a package, especially from the place that is associated with a manufacturer. So FR track pack would seem to me like an attractive upgrade that would also keep the car OEMish.

I'd also love to see guides on GT suspension upgrades involving sets of components from Shelby cars.

Unfortunately I find no good reviews on either. They all come down to lowered car looks and driving comfort. Even americanMuscle youtubr review of FR suspension packages involving an engineer is pretty pointless.

The only thing I found was - several track pack adopters mentioned the car tends to understeer and front wheels might skip even at streets. And so they ended up swapping the front with another sway bar which defeats the purpose.
This is why this forum recommends going with only FR Track Pack shocks and struts and to pair them with BMR 083 springs. Then to add GT350R rear sway bar and whatever After market front swaybar you like more about this setup could be found here:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/m6g-suspension-nirvana.122473/

It's a must read for everyone in the suspensions forum. And really educational.

Hope this helps.
 

dman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
224
Reaction score
82
Location
ventura, ca
Vehicle(s)
2017 gt pp lightning
This is why this forum recommends going with only FR Track Pack shocks and struts and to pair them with BMR 083 springs. Then to add GT350R rear sway bar and whatever After market front swaybar you like more about this setup could be found here:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/m6g-suspension-nirvana.122473/

It's a must read for everyone in the suspensions forum. And really educational.

Hope this helps.
surprised no one really mentions Steeda IRS braces which work so well with Steeda K Brace.
highly recommend dw
 

 
5 - Hypermotive - 1
Top