Halogens/HIDs on the 2015 Mustang?

[Overboost]

Yeah -- and my problem with that is, if they don't want to creep up on Lincoln, maybe they should make an attempt to make Lincoln better and stand out instead of dumbing everything else down. If GM can do it with Cadillac, Ford surely can do it with Lincoln.

Yep, and aside from the fact that halogens are inferior to HIDs, this is the second part of the issue. All the competition(like HYUNDAI and KIA, seriously!) has the good stuff.

The MKZ has LED headlamps already. They don't need to do anything to differentiate them between the two, just offer an upgraded headlamp to the Fusion and be done.

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[SStormtrooPer]

The MKZ has LED headlamps already. They don't need to do anything to differentiate them between the two, just offer an upgraded headlamp to the Fusion and be done.

Didn't realize that... Then you are right, the obvious choice would be HIDs standard on all Ford models.

 

[shelby1k]

If you're getting the I4 or GT you probably have nothing to worry about. Not an excuse for them to go backwards on the base but you can think about it this way-- The I4 is what the V6 is now. The V6 is now an even more base model than the current base.

They're expanding the lineup both up and down, with the GT getting more premium technology and features. If you look at it this way, it's not so horrible... and yes, that is very Ford apologist of me to say but I"m just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Twin Turbo]

If you're getting the I4 or GT you probably have nothing to worry about. Not an excuse for them to go backwards on the base but you can think about it this way-- The I4 is what the V6 is now. The V6 is now an even more base model than the current base.

They're expanding the lineup both up and down, with the GT getting more premium technology and features. If you look at it this way, it's not so horrible... and yes, that is very Ford apologist of me to say but I"m just playing devil's advocate.

Whilst that makes sense, I still think the base car should have HIDs........the premium trims should have LEDs. At least as an option.

Guess we need to wait until the production specs are released before getting too upset though.

 

[oldlugs]

I know that everyone is mesmerized into thinking that HID lighting is so far superior to that ancient incandescent halogen technology. What I believe really makes good lighting great, is more a function of reflector and lens size and design, than bulb type. My '08 Bullitt has halogen lamps, and my '09 KR has the factory HID. The HID are not much better than the halogen. In the past, I could buy 80/100 Watt H4 bulbs for my Marchal, Cibie, Hella, Zelmot, etc. 5-3/4" and 7" round lamps. With those 80/100 bulbs installed, I could SEE. IMO, those were far superior to most HID lamps I've seen lately. I'm fine with halogens, but think we need better factory (or aftermarket) halogen lighting. HID may be the latest wow, but I don't see it as being far superior to halogens. We need better lamp designs.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

I know that everyone is mesmerized into thinking that HID lighting is so far superior to that ancient incandescent halogen technology. What I believe really makes good lighting great, is more a function of reflector and lens size and design, than bulb type. My '08 Bullitt has halogen lamps, and my '09 KR has the factory HID. The HID are not much better than the halogen. In the past, I could buy 80/100 Watt H4 bulbs for my Marchal, Cibie, Hella, Zelmot, etc. 5-3/4" and 7" round lamps. With those 80/100 bulbs installed, I could SEE. IMO, those were far superior to most HID lamps I've seen lately. I'm fine with halogens, but think we need better factory (or aftermarket) halogen lighting. HID may be the latest wow, but I don't see it as being far superior to halogens. We need better lamp designs.

Fair, but if we compare the two, it is a safe bet that most don't want HIDs to "have" HIDs. I think it is fair to assume we are comparing a GREAT halogen, which I think Fords have, to GREAT HID. At the end of the day, there is actually no comparison, as a good halogen pales in comparison to a good HID.

Halogens will only ever be so good -- there is a point where they just can't best the superior tech out there.

 

[oldlugs]

Fair, but if we compare the two, it is a safe bet that most don't want HIDs to "have" HIDs. I think it is fair to assume we are comparing a GREAT halogen, which I think Fords have, to GREAT HID. At the end of the day, there is actually no comparison, as a good halogen pales in comparison to a good HID.

Halogens will only ever be so good -- there is a point where they just can't best the superior tech out there.

In what way does a good halogen pale, in comparison to good HID? Please explain. A high Watt halogen has an incredible lumen output, as does HID. Main advantages of HID are cooler operation, less current used and longer life; right? Disadvantage is extra weight from ballast circuit, and greater cost.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but can't halogen match HID in actual lumen output (overall, not per Watt used)?
I believe it's only reflector and lens design that makes a real (visible) difference. I'm fine with either technology, IF the lamp is designed to be functional, in liew of just being pleasing to the eye. I disagree that Ford is using GREAT designs with either technology, but rather, cost effective designs.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

In what way does a good halogen pale, in comparison to good HID? Please explain. A high Watt halogen has an incredible lumen output, as does HID. Main advantages of HID are cooler operation, less current used and longer life; right? Disadvantage is extra weight from ballast circuit, and greater cost.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but can't halogen match HID in actual lumen output (overall, not per Watt used)?
I believe it's only reflector and lens design that makes a real (visible) difference. I'm fine with either technology, IF the lamp is designed to be functional, in liew of just being pleasing to the eye. I disagree that Ford is using GREAT designs with either technology, but rather, cost effective designs.

I like the Halogens on Fords -- my '88 Mustang lights are better than anything else from that era IMO. The halogens on the early Escapes were fairly good compared to the competition. I had good experiences with Ford halogens.


You are right, the reflector is a big percentage of a good light. And you are correct that you can have a Halogen with incredible output close to or matching an HID. However, I disagree that makes a good halogen -- and you sort of confirmed that with your HID advantages list. If "good" halogen doesn't do everything a "good" HID does, then yes, it pales in comparison. Truths is a good halogen can hardly offer any of what a good HID offers.

I have yet to ride in, drive near, or see a car that has halogens out-performing an HID. Even a bulb like the Silverstar is only nominally better that a standard halogen, and they last about 1/4 as long. I put a $100 set of Delta Tech sealed beam replacement housings with a nice cut-off, great focus, and 95 watt halogen bulbs in my Jeep -- while they are noticeably better than any other halogen I have seen or used, they are no where close to an HID.

HIDs have significantly higher output at a lot lower wattage. To get a halogen up to those levels, you are taxing the filament beyond levels it can reasonably handle, operating at temperature levels beyond what it can reasonably handle, and you are drawing more amperage. Halogens are dirt cheap comparatively -- and it it were even remotely as easy to get one to perform similarly to a GOOD HID, every car would have halogens. But that is just not the case.

That said, I would take the cost, and the little weight the ballast adds for the light output of a good HID. It is just time to move on like every other company. The time to join the "HID club" is not after everyone else goes to LEDs. IT is now, for the base cars.

 

[ArtRios87]

The mustang has always been about affordability so I am sure they will have to sacrifice in some areas in order to make the mustang affordable but don't expect getting a 50k mustang for 20k. Depending on your budget if you want HIDs then it will probably be more than one without them that's for sure.

 

[Bullitt3980]

I love HIDs--only problem is a customer is going to have a heart attack one day when I tell them how much a replacement bulb is. Then it gets better when I explain how HIDs get duller as they get older and he will notice the new bulb is much brighter--why not buy 2?
Most cars only use the HIDs on low beam--the high beams are halogen
I couldn't car less what headlights the new Mustang comes with-nobody driving a Kia will laugh at you if you don't have HIDs-what is this? High School?
HIDs are the sort of technology that is new and cool sounding but really, who cares?-----because LEDs will be here soon
Oh I can't wait for a customer to go bugged eyed when I tell him what a replacement LED headlamp is-judging by the number of burned out CHML's I see-they will burn out

 

[Josh Painter]

I love HIDs--only problem is a customer is going to have a heart attack one day when I tell them how much a replacement bulb is. Then it gets better when I explain how HIDs get duller as they get older and he will notice the new bulb is much brighter--why not buy 2?
Most cars only use the HIDs on low beam--the high beams are halogen
I couldn't car less what headlights the new Mustang comes with-nobody driving a Kia will laugh at you if you don't have HIDs-what is this? High School?
HIDs are the sort of technology that is new and cool sounding but really, who cares?-----because LEDs will be here soon
Oh I can't wait for a customer to go bugged eyed when I tell him what a replacement LED headlamp is-judging by the number of burned out CHML's I see-they will burn out

Pro and Cons of HID vs. Halogen

Pros:

HIDs do offer better nighttime visibility.
HIDs last longer than halogens.
HIDS pull fewer amps from your car's charging system.


Cons:

The intense glare from HIDs to oncoming drivers can be irritating.
Halogens provide better visibility in fog and rain.
HID beams cut off more sharply than halogen beams.
And your point: HIDs are much more expensive to replace.

 

[SStormtrooPer]

Cons:

The intense glare from HIDs to oncoming drivers can be irritating.
Halogens provide better visibility in fog and rain.
HID beams cut off more sharply than halogen beams.
And your point: HIDs are much more expensive to replace.

They are only irritating to other drivers if the cut-off is non-existent, or not designed right.
They are only worse in the rain and the fog if the cut-off is non-existent, or not designed right.
The cut-off is design feature to stop from blinding other drivers, and to stop the light from shining up into the rain and fog. That is why aftermarket HIDs are so crappy. They don't have proper cut-offs.

Good aftermarket halogens that replaced sealed beams HAVE cut-offs like an HID -- that is one reason they are better than factory halogens.

 

[MYs197]

Whilst that makes sense, I still think the base car should have HIDs........the premium trims should have LEDs. At least as an option.

Guess we need to wait until the production specs are released before getting too upset though.

I think the best time to get upset is now and raise a big stink about it. It's unfortunate that Ford has decided to hide this from people since it's obviously not being shown in spy photos like those fake Camaro lights back in 08.

I don't see this being talked about anywhere else on the net but here since we have guys in the know and some keen observations about the survey.... This means Ford isn't hearing the complaints which they deserve to. Not saying it's on this level but this is how we avoided the Probe disaster.

 

[Josh Painter]

They are only irritating to other drivers if the cut-off is non-existent, or not designed right.
They are only worse in the rain and the fog if the cut-off is non-existent, or not designed right.
The cut-off is design feature to stop from blinding other drivers, and to stop the light from shining up into the rain and fog. That is why aftermarket HIDs are so crappy. They don't have proper cut-offs.

Good aftermarket halogens that replaced sealed beams HAVE cut-offs like an HID -- that is one reason they are better than factory halogens.

With all due respect...

HID headlights are brighter and cause more disability glare than halogen headlights under identical viewing circumstances.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1771460/


In fog and rain, blue light tends to be scattered more by water droplets, so with HID headlights, more light is reflected back to the driver, making it harder to see when you most need good visibility.

Blue light tends to be scattered more by water droplets, so with HID headlights, more light is reflected back to the driver, making it harder to see when you most need good visibility. - See more at: http://local.dexknows.com/pros-and-cons-of-hid-headlights/#sthash.XlBWVRRX.dpuf
http://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/high-intensity-discharge-lamp/

Another point to consider – and perhaps this means arranging a nighttime test drive – is that HID headlights feature a beam that sharply cuts off rather than fading out gradually. Some drivers say this can take some getting used to. - See more at: http://local.dexknows.com/pros-and-cons-of-hid-headlights/#sthash.2FPlfF92.dpuf
I do offer one mea culpa regarding the sharper cutoff of the beam's pattern with HID headlamps. I apologize for not being more specific. Apparently, sharper cutoff is a feature of projected -- as opposed to reflected -- beams. It can be a disadvantage only in the sense that it may take some getting used to for drivers used to a more gradual fade of the beam at the edges of the pattern.

But on glare and fog, I was right as rain. It's science, not opinion. Proper design of the entire headlamp unit can minimize the glare, but HIDs still cause more glare for oncoming drivers than is the case with halogen units.

For fog lamps, lower intensity and a yellow beam provide better visibility in the soup than do high wattage blue or white lights. Also, the lower on the front of the car they are mounted, the better.

 

[Deroxas2.0]

Pro and Cons of HID vs. Halogen

Pros:

HIDs do offer better nighttime visibility.
HIDs last longer than halogens.
HIDS pull fewer amps from your car's charging system.

Add to Pros: Looks much better than halogens cosmetically.

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