Had the opportunity to drive a Camaro ZL1 and my Mach 1 back to back

[passwords]

There still hasn't been a US spec 2021 HP Mach 1 with Cup 2 tyres run on this track.
Just saying.

Since we’re keeping things vague, it wouldn’t. Don’t get me wrong, I like the Mach 1. There’s just a huge difference in performance between the Mach and the ZLE.

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[passwords]

When I switched to my ZL1 from my 2018 Mustang GT Premium (PP1, A10, MagneRide) with Borla catback, I thought I would miss the high revving engine and exhaust sound. While I think the exhaust note alone sounded better (smoother and more baritone, I'd say) in the Mustang with the Borla, the induction + supercharger noise combined with varying exhaust note (due to active exhaust) overall sounds more complex and interesting to me in the ZL1. Cold starts are crazy loud for a fully stock exhaust as well (I have to wait until people are no longer behind me as to not startle them when I'm out and about).

As it turns out I haven't really missed the 7500 rpm Gen 3 Coyote redline, as 6500 rpm is enough when it makes 650 ft-lbs of torque at 3600 rpm.

Body lines and looks are, of course, subjective. Overall I much prefer the ZL1 looks over the GT (for me the GT500 and ZL1 are a draw as far as looks go). The ZL1 is more interesting to me than my GT; I love the ZL1's front end design, hood + carbon fiber extractor, and door lines with the side skirts beneath. It also looks meaner from the front. I also like the slightly shorter front overhang of the ZL1 and slightly longer dash to axle ratio (visualized by the longer distance from the A-pillar to the centerline of the front axles). I love how the designers incorporated a touch of the 3rd Gen Camaro (my first car was a 1987 Camaro Z28) with the slightly "cupped" front head lights - where there's some body trim on the outer edge of the headlights.

From the rear, its a toss up, although I do like the slightly more pinched look of the Mustang and the longer slope, as well as the forward "leaning" style of the rear end, vs the more vertical Camaro rear. I like that the wing is functional on my ZL1, vs the non-functional wing of the PP1 (Mach 1 spoiler is functional, though).

Mach 1 rear end is an improvement over the base GT due to the GT500 valence and exhaust tips. Though the exhaust tips look too large for a 480 hp car. The GT500 and Mach 1 rear ends are really nice, a bit more complex than the ZL1, which has a few less lines.

Speaking of exhaust tips, I prefer the 4.25" dia. trumpet style of the ZL1 exhaust tips, which gives them more depth and thickness, even over the larger 5" GT500 tips.

Other (brain dump) tidbits of having owned both at the same time:

The BOSE stereo in my ZL1 is really good. Highs can get a bit harsh if turned up too high, but that's solved by keeping it only at +2 or 3 (out of a -12 to +12 range). There's enough treble. Great bass and midrange; good spatial separation as well. It blows away the 9 speaker "Premium" system in the GT. I had to replace the rear deck speakers in my GT, the OEM ones were utterly terrible sounding. Maybe the B&O would be better.

Visibility win goes to the Mustang, but the Camaro is livable for me. My wife did ask "what happened to the rest of the windshield?" when she first got in the ZL1. The roofline comes further forward on the ZL1 compared to where you sit, so you can't see out and up very far. Oh well, I just lean forward on occasion when needed (e.g., for some stop lights at narrow roads).

The Camaro trunk is big enough, but the opening is much smaller. It isn't a problem for me since I don't haul anything. I can easily get my gym bag, several bags of groceries, and my laptop bag with plenty of room to spare back there. The opening is small due to the chassis dictating the design ("form follows function").

Yes, the Camaro back seats work fine for kids, as well as for small adults for shorter trips. Big adults aren't comfortable in either. The headroom in the GT rear seats was terrible as well, but what I didn't like about that was your head was on the rear glass, not the car roof since the rear glass came so far forward. At least in the ZL1 it's still underneath an actual sheet metal roof with soft lining above your head. I don't see how the rear of the Mustang is safe for anyone who's head touches the glass.

I won't compare the performance between the GT and ZL1 because they obviously aren't close. I will compare the A10 programming - the ZL1's programming and function is much, much, much better than the A10 in the GT. The GT was clunky and easily confused. They both shift fast under WOT. The paddles were comically slow in the GT under light throttle, and it wouldn't shift out of first in manual mode under light throttle below about 2400 rpm or so, but you wouldn't realize it until you were well past that, because even when it did change, it was so slow that you didn't know it until it just kept slowly building revs. Also, in auto or manual mode, at slow speeds when cold, the GT would not always release the throttle even if you took your foot off the gas pedal, so for about 1-2 seconds it would continue giving it light throttle. Terrible.

I prefer the low AC vents in the Camaro, I like my torso blown with cold air. The low down vents do that much better than the high vents on my Mustang did.

The heated/cooled/electric Recaros are awesome. The standard heads up display is cool as well.

I like that the ZL1 has forged wheels from the factory, those aren't even an option on the GT500 (which comes w/ flow formed wheels in "base" form). The larger 20x10 and 20x11 forged ZL1 wheels are each several pounds lighter than the much smaller 19x9 and 19x9.5 PP1 wheels.

Interior quality is pretty similar between my GT Premium and the ZL1, though I like the design of the ZL1 better - it feels more like a sports car, and has a lower seating position. I also like the extensive use of Alcantara. The GT seating position felt like a sedan after driving my ZL1.

Overall fit and finish is a bit better on the ZL1 than the Mustang, mainly body panel fitment. More consistent overall, I'd say. There were parts on the Mustang between the sheet metal body and plastic parts that were different lengths.

Wow, this got long.

Good overall comparison. It’s easy to go on and on since the driving experience involves a number of objective and subjective factors. The use case is also important - for my GT350R and ZLE I could care less about comfy seats and a smooth ride. But they are both good weather weekend cars for me and my wife.

It’s funny to me when people talk about how harsh the ZLE ride is, and how poor the visibility is (Camaro more generally). My wife takes the ZLE out shopping and running errands most Sundays and she loves it. She also drives it to work on some Fridays. No complaints about the ride quality or visibility, ever. But I can say for sure that we would never consider the ZLE if it was our only car.

 

[traxiii]

LOL, one of my pets might like to curl up back there. But to date, seven years in, no actual human has ever sat in the back of mine outside of me being crammed back there trying to clean the rear window.

Speaking of dogs in the back seat. We took our 90# German Shepherd from S.F. Bay to L.A. and back in the back seat of a 2020 EB FB, and she didn't seem to mind the smallish space. I'm sure any human over 50# would think different.

 

[RocketGuy3]

Except the cost of the ZL1 and Mach 1 are startlingly close....

Someone's probably mentioned it by now, but you can get the Mach 1 for like 8% off MSRP from Chapman or 6% from Granger. I searched fairly far for a dealer that would offer anything close to that for even a 2SS 1LE before pulling the trigger on my Mach 1, but came up empty... I doubt a single ZL1 has sold for any less than $10K over sticker for the last two years.

 

[kz]

I doubt a single ZL1 has sold for any less than $10K over sticker for the last two years.

There are three local to me I know of, all purchased under MSRP.

 

[Mikepol2]

Would like to see a track comparison of Mach 1 with handling package and supercharger vs ZL1 without the 1LE. Would be very comparable cost, daily driveability, and performance. My Mach was $55K (2% under invoice), plus $9K for a blower would be $64K. A quick check online for new ZL1's within 250 miles away shows stickers of $66K and up, and nothing used for less money except for a couple with 30K-ish miles.

 

[theruleslawyer]

Fwiw what you see sitting on lots is sitting for a reason. There are people selling at msrp, but generally they are sold before they hit the lot. My local dealer will order one at msrp and said about 12 weeks.

 

[RocketGuy3]

There are three local to me I know of, all purchased under MSRP.

ZL1s, really? Not just SS 1LEs? Color me legit shocked if so... I can admit when I'm wrong lol, but now you got me curious to look up these prices in my area. Has the Camaro really fallen so far that the "ultimate" model even in this ridiculous car market can't command MSRP!???

EDIT: Also to be sure, are you talking new or used? I was talking new.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

ZL1s, really? Not just SS 1LEs? Color me legit shocked if so... I can admit when I'm wrong lol, but now you got me curious to look up these prices in my area. Has the Camaro really fallen so far that the "ultimate" model even in this ridiculous car market can't command MSRP!???

EDIT: Also to be sure, are you talking new or used? I was talking new.

To be fair, you said "in the last two years", but I think the crazy market really only started taking off about a year ago (maybe 13 months).

Used ZL1s are being listed for well above MSRP. New ZL1s, if you want to wait, seem to be closer to msrp, but in some cases still listed above MSRP. But you could be waiting for a while.

I got my ZL1 just in time, as it was only 3 months from order to delivery, and they were still running incentives last March (2021) when I took delivery. I paid a few thousand under msrp, and used cars only barely started to rise at that time, nothing like 2022 or later in 2021.

 

[Atlas1]

To be fair, you said "in the last two years", but I think the crazy market really only started taking off about a year ago (maybe 13 months).

Used ZL1s are being listed for well above MSRP. New ZL1s, if you want to wait, seem to be closer to msrp, but in some cases still listed above MSRP. But you could be waiting for a while.

I got my ZL1 just in time, as it was only 3 months from order to delivery, and they were still running incentives last March (2021) when I took delivery. I paid a few thousand under msrp, and used cars only barely started to rise at that time, nothing like 2022 or later in 2021.

it does seem like it was summer of '21 that things went nuts. in '20 and early '21 you could get great deals on cars, at least new which is what i watch. then summer hit last year and it really hit the fan

 

[Mikepol2]

it does seem like it was summer of '21 that things went nuts. in '20 and early '21 you could get great deals on cars, at least new which is what i watch. then summer hit last year and it really hit the fan

Yep, I distinctly remember a new 2020 PP2 301A with active exhaust and Recaros advertised for $38,000 in May 2020. Was very close to buying.

 

[Strokerswild]

it does seem like it was summer of '21 that things went nuts. in '20 and early '21 you could get great deals on cars, at least new which is what i watch. then summer hit last year and it really hit the fan

Yep. I kick myself now for not buying a '21 GT500 instead of waiting for a '22. Things went nuts, MSRP deals vanished and ADMs became the rule, and several substantial price increases on '22s made it even less appealing. Such is life.

 

[Kermut]

it does seem like it was summer of '21 that things went nuts. in '20 and early '21 you could get great deals on cars, at least new which is what i watch. then summer hit last year and it really hit the fan

I know you know I wanted a 2019 GT350 but then got the Mach after prices went crazy (no regrets), but I distinctly recall with immense frustration watching prices rise as I waited to finish my training and start my 'real' job.

I found my old excel spreadsheet tracking GT350 prices when I first started looking in Q3 2020. A GT350 with ~5-10k miles on it was $57k. I checked on cars.com last night, and the best you can find now are 2019's with 20-30k miles for $65k+, with low mileage cars easily in the $70k+ range

 

[Atlas1]

I know you know I wanted a 2019 GT350 but then got the Mach after prices went crazy (no regrets), but I distinctly recall with immense frustration watching prices rise as I waited to finish my training and start my 'real' job.

I found my old excel spreadsheet tracking GT350 prices when I first started looking in Q3 2020. A GT350 with ~5-10k miles on it was $57k. I checked on cars.com last night, and the best you can find now are 2019's with 20-30k miles for $65k+, with low mileage cars easily in the $70k+ range

That’s insane. I get they don’t make them anymore but I just couldn’t pay over msrp for a car that is a couple years old with that kind of mileage

 

[Shadow277]

The Camaro has been faster than Mustangs in the same price range for over a decade now.

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