GT500 vs ZLE

[TnWHTMARE]

So randy says the brakes on 500 are squishy, odd i never felt that. But he raves about zle brakes.. interesting
Randy never mentions dull steering (because its not)..

CnD mentions nothing about 500 brakes, only steering, odd..yet the zle subpar brakes are mentioned..along with just how crappy the interior is..

Odd that so many REAL people are enthusiastic about the 500, with nothing bad to say..and its DESTROYING the competition.. yet the magazines are throwing hail maker excuses out..

So odd, its its almost like they have an agenda

absolutely seconded.

In my case I'm comparing the Goodyear Supercar 3 (SS/1LE) vs PS4S (GT PP1) so tires are definitely a factor as is suspension. With the Camaro you KNOW what it's doing. With the Mustang you HOPE it'll do what you're asking of it. The various upgrades to the GT may bring things a lot closer. TBD

I've said it before, GM chassis (and body controller programmers) are clearly better than Ford's - which may be a factor of corporate "priorities" - GM chooses to spend the time and money necessary to get good results, but Ford stops when it's close enough. I have no evidence of the assertion but you sure can tell the difference.

Multimatic does a LOT of work with Ford so I'm rather surprised the CFTP doesn't come with their kit. I don't see why it would be so difficult to combine MR with spool valve to dynamically alter the viscosity of the fluid and thus tame the "harsh for street use" criticism leveled at the ZLE. Or for that matter why not work with JRi/Cortex, Penske, or Ohlins to do something similar - as a 'ford performance' option package perhaps?

Thomas states at 8:54 that the Mustang GT steering is "crap" as has Jason. He (Thomas) also then follows that by saying that the GT500 is as good as or better than the Camaro's. And later on states that that is saying something. So clearly something DID change between the GT and the GT500 which is why Randy did not mention it. But I can absolutely tell a WORLD of difference between my 18 GT and 19SS.

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[Minn19]

All cars come from the factory with negative camber....including the GT500. The picture makes it obvious that the ZLE had more....which throws the "GT500 had a track alignment and the ZLE didn't" theory out the window.

Ford did send the cars that way....as it's likely all they had at the time. We know the wing was in the incorrect position for track use. We also know Ford sent the vehicle with spent tires. In all reality, no one knows what the hell either car had for camber settings...they seem to all be going off of assumptions.

As for negative camber helping or not, we all know how much of a difference it made on the C8 corvette.

You contradict your own this post and others. Do you know how much negative camber both have stock from the factory? On one hand you are saying there is no way to tell without equipment how much each has, but then say for sure the ZLE is in track alignment settings. Also, remember form previous threads the track alignment doesn't mean anything so who cares right?

How do you know the wing was in the incorrect position? Maybe they wanted less drag to take advantage of the long straight and is it wasn't going to be that effective in the corners anyway. It would take some track testing etc there to determine which was better for lap times. But, regardless what you guys think of Jason and Randy, these guys aren't amateurs and I'm sure it was discussed at some point.

 

[Checkmate]

You contradict your own this post and others. Do you know how much negative camber both have stock from the factory? On one hand you are saying there is no way to tell without equipment how much each has, but then say for sure the ZLE is in track alignment settings. Also, remember form previous threads the track alignment doesn't mean anything so who cares right?

How do you know the wing was in the incorrect position? Maybe they wanted less drag to take advantage of the long straight and is it wasn't going to be that effective in the corners anyway. It would take some track testing etc there to determine which was better for lap times. But, regardless what you guys think of Jason and Randy, these guys aren't amateurs and I'm sure it was discussed at some point.

Exactly. Randy's comment at the end about the 10mph advantage in the 'straights' would be null and void if BillyJ's suggested install of front wicker and increased angle of attack in the rear materializes. More aggressive aero means - more drag. That would hurt the GT500 in the straightline speed.

The other important thing to note is that the GT500 CFTP is $20k+ more (before ADM) than the ZL1 1LE. It has to get all the fancy goodies and let go of rear seats to get close to or beat the ZL1 1LE's performance.

All this banter about track alignment setting and tires cannot justify that price point.

This only matters because Ford markets the CFTP GT500 as a fire breathing track day special.....just like a ZL1 1LE's intended use.

 

[Big John]

Exactly. Randy's comment at the end about the 10mph advantage in the 'straights' would be null and void if BillyJ's suggested install of front wicker and increased angle of attack in the rear materializes. More aggressive aero means - more drag. That would hurt the GT500 in the straightline speed.

I strongly suspect Billy knows what he’s talking about. He has more seat time in the GT500 and probably the ZLE than most.

 

[millhouse]

You contradict your own this post and others. Do you know how much negative camber both have stock from the factory? On one hand you are saying there is no way to tell without equipment how much each has, but then say for sure the ZLE is in track alignment settings. Also, remember form previous threads the track alignment doesn't mean anything so who cares right?

How do you know the wing was in the incorrect position? Maybe they wanted less drag to take advantage of the long straight and is it wasn't going to be that effective in the corners anyway. It would take some track testing etc there to determine which was better for lap times. But, regardless what you guys think of Jason and Randy, these guys aren't amateurs and I'm sure it was discussed at some point.

I'm not saying the ZLE has a track alignment. I'm saying we don't know what either had. The pictures suggest the ZLE has more (negative).

As for the wing position, Talk with Billy J...he's made comments on this.

The GT500 has enough power to compensate for the added drag. It needs all the traction it can get in the corners. These guys don't adjust wings and alignments. They get the cars and run them as is.

My guess is, someone lowered the wing before they got the car for testing....and then Ford picked the car up from who knows where and delivered it to throttle house. I blame Ford for this. The tire issue is the fault of throttle house. The wing, alignment and splitters are all on Ford.

 

[thill444]

Throttle House should have run a GT500 (base) vs the ZL1 since they went out of their way to have a ZL1 available. I bet you Speed Phenom would have been there in a heartbeat.

I love the Throttle House guys but this whole thing was very poorly executed. Especially since they went out of their way to bring in Jason Camissa and Randy Pobst (whicn I am sure was not free).

 

[millhouse]

I strongly suspect Billy knows what he’s talking about. He has more seat time in the GT500 and probably the ZLE than most.

Yup.

 

[millhouse]

Exactly. Randy's comment at the end about the 10mph advantage in the 'straights' would be null and void if BillyJ's suggested install of front wicker and increased angle of attack in the rear materializes. More aggressive aero means - more drag. That would hurt the GT500 in the straightline speed.

The other important thing to note is that the GT500 CFTP is $20k+ more (before ADM) than the ZL1 1LE. It has to get all the fancy goodies and let go of rear seats to get close to or beat the ZL1 1LE's performance.

All this banter about track alignment setting and tires cannot justify that price point.

This only matters because Ford markets the CFTP GT500 as a fire breathing track day special.....just like a ZL1 1LE's intended use.

Even with the wing up, the GT500 CFTP has a dominant straight line speed advantage. Recall the 4 second advantage in 0-150mph time the CFTP has over the ZLE?

It may have lost a mile or two on those long straights, but it would have more than made up for it in the turns.

The more I comment on this, the more I feel this entire test needs to be thrown out. Rerun it with the corrections.

 

[Minn19]

I'm not saying the ZLE has a track alignment. I'm saying we don't know what either had. The pictures suggest the ZLE has more (negative).

As for the wing position, Talk with Billy J...he's made comments on this.

The GT500 has enough power to compensate for the added drag. It needs all the traction it can get in the corners. These guys don't adjust wings and alignments. They get the cars and run them as is.

My guess is, someone lowered the wing before they got the car for testing....and then Ford picked the car up from who knows where and delivered it to throttle house. I blame Ford for this. The tire issue is the fault of throttle house. The wing, alignment and splitters are all on Ford.

Ford sent them a car that was in very poor condition, In usual Ford fashion a very lazy/non pride approach to it IMO. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Sure it has more power, but drag is drag. There is an optimal setting for this stuff at each track and we don't know what that is here. It could be one way and it could be another.

 

[millhouse]

Throttle House should have run a GT500 (base) vs the ZL1 since they went out of their way to have a ZL1 available. I bet you Speed Phenom would have been there in a heartbeat.

I love the Throttle House guys but this whole thing was very poorly executed. Especially since they went out of their way to bring in Jason Camissa and Randy Pobst (whicn I am sure was not free).

Exactly.

 

[millhouse]

Ford sent them a car that was in very poor condition, In usual Ford fashion a very lazy/non pride approach to it IMO. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Sure it has more power, but drag is drag. There is an optimal setting for this stuff at each track and we don't know what that is here. It could be one way and it could be another.

No, I'm in agreement with you. The tires are all on throttle house...that's their responsibility.

The car's alignment and other adjustments is totally on Ford.

 

[millhouse]

Exactly why for the ISSIMI video, there was no fancy Aero front wicker and aggressive angle of attack? By that theory, would you disregard the GT500 vs GT3 RS lap time?

How come no one over here was fired up about that?

The lacking wickers was mentioned previously. So far, none of Fords test vehicles seems to have had them.

At least in that test they assured the cars were on a fresh set of OEM tires.

 

[Checkmate]

The lacking wickers was mentioned previously. So far, none of Fords test vehicles seems to have had them.

At least in that test they assured the cars were on a fresh set of OEM tires.

I am sure we will all find a test where all will be measured on equal footing. Till then, enjoy the GT500! It's a hell of an engineering feat!

 

[millhouse]

I am sure we will all find a test where all will be measured on equal footing. Till then, enjoy the GT500! It's a hell of an engineering feat!

I'm too cheap to enjoy the GT500. Hell, people are getting pissed at me in other threads for mentioning Fords Godzilla 7.3L in an S550 would be fun as hell.

The only reason I'm in here is for the rhetoric.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

No, I'm in agreement with you. The tires are all on throttle house...that's their responsibility.

These are the same guys who took the time to put SC2's on a SS1LE to run against a PP2, so they know where to buy tires when it suits them.

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