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GT500 vs ZL1 (including 1LE) roadcourse

MaskedRacerX

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People rarely mentions the eLSD of the Camaro but to me thats the game changer. Similar tech is what allowed the 3800lb GTR to shock the world at the N'ring.
Yeah, that's a slick bit of technology - random FYI: the eLSD is not present on the ZL1 convertible due to "packaging constraints", I mean, let's be real, that's not a car that will likely ever see any track duty, but it's still a bit of a bummer (I'm kind of cross shopping ZL1 convertibles).
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Eritas

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eLSDs are amazing. I wish the GT500 had one and not a simple torsen.
 

Bubba Bear

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stock ZL1 10 speed has some horrible bog from the torque management, it's consistently a 11.5 second car 100% stock when it should be a lot faster
 

DekiDoo

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Im gonna say that the limits of the s550 platform have been tapped a while back. Ford had so much time to beat the 1LE and they couldn't do it. There still isn't a same day, same track, same driver comparison for the PP2 vs 6th gen 1LE. I think the ZL1 1LE will destroy the GT500, even with less power, just like the 5th gen ZL1 did to the 13/14 GT500 with more weight and 100hp less. Ford over promised and under delivered with the s550. They claimed initially it was going to be 200 pounds lighter than the s197 and all new... ..and yet, they kept the wheelbase the same down to 1/10th of an inch. Mustang are great cars, but they are not in the same league as the Aplha Camaros when it comes to road course work. I could be wrong. Time will tell.
 

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Hack

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Im gonna say that the limits of the s550 platform have been tapped a while back. Ford had so much time to beat the 1LE and they couldn't do it. There still isn't a same day, same track, same driver comparison for the PP2 vs 6th gen 1LE. I think the ZL1 1LE will destroy the GT500, even with less power, just like the 5th gen ZL1 did to the 13/14 GT500 with more weight and 100hp less. Ford over promised and under delivered with the s550. They claimed initially it was going to be 200 pounds lighter than the s197 and all new... ..and yet, they kept the wheelbase the same down to 1/10th of an inch. Mustang are great cars, but they are not in the same league as the Aplha Camaros when it comes to road course work. I could be wrong. Time will tell.
The limits have been tapped. By saying that do you mean that more power and bigger brakes on the GT500 won't do anything to improve performance? Do you mean that the DCT won't improve acceleration times over the manual transmission?

Not in the same league? Another metaphor that doesn't apply. My actual experience on the road course along with all the test data I've seen says that the two cars are fairly similar in performance.

Sounds like either trolling or wishful thinking to me.
 

DekiDoo

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The limits have been tapped. By saying that do you mean that more power and bigger brakes on the GT500 won't do anything to improve performance? Do you mean that the DCT won't improve acceleration times over the manual transmission?

Not in the same league? Another metaphor that doesn't apply. My actual experience on the road course along with all the test data I've seen says that the two cars are fairly similar in performance.

Sounds like either trolling or wishful thinking to me.
No. More power and bigger brakes wont do much. Braking will be limited by tire size and compound, and it will not have bigger front tires or better compound than the gt350R. Weight will be up. Weight over the front axle specifically will be up. It will be traction limited in the rear. What Chevy has going for them is the weight, and PTM with the E-diff. Technology is just better suited for track use. Ford couldn't even claim that PP2 GTs were made to compete with the 1LE, and the fact that people are hitting limp mode after 1 session dude to overheating diffs and transmissions shows Fords dedication to actually competing with anything Chevy has. Like I said, just my opinion. And your experience on the road course means nothing unless you have driven the ZLE and the Gt500, which I can guarantee 100% that you have not. I love my 18 GT, and if I did more than 3 track days a year, I know what car would be in my garage, and it certainly isnt the mustang.
 
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Hack

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No. More power and bigger brakes wont do much. Braking will be limited by tire size and compound, and it will not have bigger front tires or better compound than the gt350R. Weight will be up. Weight over the front axle specifically will be up. It will be traction limited in the rear. What Chevy has going for them is the weight, and PTM with the E-diff. Technology is just better suited for track use. Ford couldn't even claim that PP2 GTs were made to compete with the 1LE, and the fact that people are hitting limp mode after 1 session dude to overheating diffs and transmissions shows Fords dedication to actually competing with anything Chevy has. Like I said, just my opinion. And your experience on the road course means nothing unless you have driven the ZLE and the Gt500, which I can guarantee 100% that you have not. I love my 18 GT, and if I did more than 3 track days a year, I know what car would be in my garage, and it certainly isnt the mustang.
It's true that I haven't driven a ZLE. I'm not even sure what it is. I did have a ZL1 1LE whip by me at the track. It was much quicker than my GT350. They are fast cars and the tests show that they are a little faster than the GT350R. They have 125 HP more than the GT350R, but according to you that doesn't matter?

Won't the GT500 have larger tires than the GT350R? I thought it did.

I believe that logic says on larger tracks, HP has an impact. You are fooling yourself if you think you can add 200 HP and the car won't get faster. I bet you had a big smile on your face when you typed that.

And the ediff won't do much on the straights when the GT500 is walking away from the Camaro.
 

DekiDoo

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It's true that I haven't driven a ZLE. I'm not even sure what it is. I did have a ZL1 1LE whip by me at the track. It was much quicker than my GT350. They are fast cars and the tests show that they are a little faster than the GT350R. They have 125 HP more than the GT350R, but according to you that doesn't matter?

Won't the GT500 have larger tires than the GT350R? I thought it did.

I believe that logic says on larger tracks, HP has an impact. You are fooling yourself if you think you can add 200 HP and the car won't get faster. I bet you had a big smile on your face when you typed that.

And the ediff won't do much on the straights when the GT500 is walking away from the Camaro.
In 2013, the 5th gen ZL1 outclassed the 13 GT500, while having less power (over 100) and carrying more weight. You think the new gt500 will be anywhere close to the weight of a 350 or a 350R? There is a reason they gave it the brakes they did. It's going to need them. It's still running a 305 front 315 rear just like the R. I don't think the platform has anything left in it at those power levels and I think it will be a repeat of 5 years ago. The gt500 will rule the drag strip, the ZL1 will remain the king of the road course. 200 horsepower and more weight will not make the gt500 a track scalpel somehow. Like I said, time will tell. I hope im wrong, but I really doubt it. As long as Ford leads the sales race, they have no reason to make the mustang better than the camaro. Doesn't make sense to invest more money into a product that is already outselling the competition. There is a reason why we're on a worked over s197 platform, with floating rear calipers, Chinese made mt82 with issues the last 9 years, etc. We keep buying them no matter what they make.
 

sdiver68

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I believe that logic says on larger tracks, HP has an impact. You are fooling yourself if you think you can add 200 HP and the car won't get faster. I bet you had a big smile on your face when you typed that.

And the ediff won't do much on the straights when the GT500 is walking away from the Camaro.
Yes there are definitely HP tracks, like Road America, Daytona, and Road Atlanta. ELSD helps there as well since corner speed and attitude both have a large bearing on straight line speeds. Regardless, yes the longer the straight, the more driver ability gap can be overcome.

On smaller tracks lap times will be far less HP dependent. In racing HP generally makes for easier passing for position even when lap times are similar overall.
 

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Hack

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In 2013, the 5th gen ZL1 outclassed the 13 GT500, while having less power (over 100) and carrying more weight. You think the new gt500 will be anywhere close to the weight of a 350 or a 350R? There is a reason they gave it the brakes they did. It's going to need them. It's still running a 305 front 315 rear just like the R. I don't think the platform has anything left in it at those power levels and I think it will be a repeat of 5 years ago. The gt500 will rule the drag strip, the ZL1 will remain the king of the road course. 200 horsepower and more weight will not make the gt500 a track scalpel somehow. Like I said, time will tell. I hope im wrong, but I really doubt it. As long as Ford leads the sales race, they have no reason to make the mustang better than the camaro. Doesn't make sense to invest more money into a product that is already outselling the competition. There is a reason why we're on a worked over s197 platform, with floating rear calipers, Chinese made mt82 with issues the last 9 years, etc. We keep buying them no matter what they make.
The Mustang already is better than the Camaro. You just don't seem to realize it.
 

DekiDoo

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The Mustang already is better than the Camaro. You just don't seem to realize it.
Performance wise, objectively, it is not, and that is what we are talking about. We are not talking about personal preference. Im sure the GT500 will sell like hot cakes.
 

DekiDoo

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See registration date and first four posts ...
What does that have to do with anything? I've owned a 2011 RTR, a 2012 Boss 302 and I currently own an 18 GT. Just because I just registered on the forum, and own the car, doesnt mean I have to be blinded by blind loyalty to a certain car brand. If I didnt have a dedicated track car, I definitely wouldn't have this Mustang.
 

SVTSNAKE355

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In 2013, the 5th gen ZL1 outclassed the 13 GT500, while having less power (over 100) and carrying more weight. You think the new gt500 will be anywhere close to the weight of a 350 or a 350R? There is a reason they gave it the brakes they did. It's going to need them. It's still running a 305 front 315 rear just like the R. I don't think the platform has anything left in it at those power levels and I think it will be a repeat of 5 years ago. The gt500 will rule the drag strip, the ZL1 will remain the king of the road course. 200 horsepower and more weight will not make the gt500 a track scalpel somehow. Like I said, time will tell. I hope im wrong, but I really doubt it. As long as Ford leads the sales race, they have no reason to make the mustang better than the camaro. Doesn't make sense to invest more money into a product that is already outselling the competition. There is a reason why we're on a worked over s197 platform, with floating rear calipers, Chinese made mt82 with issues the last 9 years, etc. We keep buying them no matter what they make.
NOT TRUE.in 2013 the GT500 beat the zl1 in ALL acceleration test,the GT500 also beat the zl1 at alot of tracks,and the zl1 beat the GT500 at some tracks.So all said and done the 2013 GT500 kicked the zl1 in the ass.:crackup:
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