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[ALUSA]

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ng-shelby-gt500-vs-2019-chevy-camaro-zl1-1le/

No lap times but .....

"But we pick winners here, and the winner is the Camaro. Its biggest advantage is that it's simply a better value. There's a lot we love about the GT500—the ride quality, interior design, and its more sophisticated powertrain—but the more affordable ZL1 1LE manages to match or surpass the Shelby's performance while offering a much longer list of features. Spend the stack of money saved on gas and Goodyears. You're going to need them."

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[millhouse]

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ng-shelby-gt500-vs-2019-chevy-camaro-zl1-1le/

No lap times but .....

"But we pick winners here, and the winner is the Camaro. Its biggest advantage is that it's simply a better value. There's a lot we love about the GT500—the ride quality, interior design, and its more sophisticated powertrain—but the more affordable ZL1 1LE manages to match or surpass the Shelby's performance while offering a much longer list of features. Spend the stack of money saved on gas and Goodyears. You're going to need them."

Curious, what performance in that article does the ZL1 1LE match or surpass? A meaningless 0-60 time? Braking distance? Are we now judging a cars performance on worthless metrics instead of meaningful ones? The GT500 was faster in the 1/4 mile (trapping 8mph more than the ZL1) and was 4 seconds faster to 150mph. And of course, as you said...no lap times for two cars meant for the track.

Funny thing is, camaro folks were bitching when the GT350R beat the ZL1 even though it lost in nearly every metric but won based solely on it's amazing driving experience. I sure hope you guys aren't claiming a victory based off of cheapness.

 

[02gtnh]

Curious, what performance in that article does the ZL1 1LE match or surpass? A meaningless 0-60 time? Braking distance? Are we now judging a cars performance on worthless metrics instead of meaningful ones? The GT500 was faster in the 1/4 mile (trapping 8mph more than the ZL1) and was 4 seconds faster to 150mph. And of course, as you said...no lap times for two cars meant for the track.

Funny thing is, camaro folks were bitching when the GT350R beat the ZL1 even though it lost in nearly every metric but won based solely on it's amazing driving experience. I sure hope you guys aren't claiming a victory based off of cheapness.

Unfortunately, the Mustang's steering is numb compared to the Camaro's, and its chassis isn't as sorted. The ZL1 is more stable, and it puts its power down better with its wider rubber, a more sophisticated traction-control system, and an excellent electronic limited-slip differential. Toss it around, and the Shelby feels smaller and lighter than it is, but it's also a bit skittish and less forgiving. It always feels like one false move, one mistake, one miscalculation, and you could easily end up in a ditch.

 

[millhouse]

Unfortunately, the Mustang's steering is numb compared to the Camaro's, and its chassis isn't as sorted. The ZL1 is more stable, and it puts its power down better with its wider rubber, a more sophisticated traction-control system, and an excellent electronic limited-slip differential. Toss it around, and the Shelby feels smaller and lighter than it is, but it's also a bit skittish and less forgiving. It always feels like one false move, one mistake, one miscalculation, and you could easily end up in a ditch.

Interesting, everything you mentioned was subjective. They have no data to back up any claim that the ZL1 equals or outperforms the GT500 except for a 0-60 time and stopping distances.

 

[02gtnh]

Interesting, everything you mentioned was subjective. They have no data to back up any claim that the ZL1 equals or outperforms the GT500 except for a 0-60 time and stopping distances.

Really don’t see much difference between this and the gt350r vs zl1. They picked the 350r because of feel and sound. Can’t measure that.

 

[millhouse]

Really don’t see much difference between this and the gt350r vs zl1. They picked the 350r because of feel and sound. Can’t measure that.

This is true.

 

[ALUSA]

Interesting, everything you mentioned was subjective. They have no data to back up any claim that the ZL1 equals or outperforms the GT500 except for a 0-60 time and stopping distances.

I thought you were an engineer. I have doubts now. Let me give you a homework. Read the article again. Look at the results and numbers which correlates to the performance including the handling, acceleration, and braking then come back Also think about the factors that affects road coarse performance as an overall not just straight line.

 

[millhouse]

I thought you were an engineer. I have doubts now. Let me give you a homework. Read the article again. Look at the results and numbers which correlates to the performance including the handling, acceleration, and braking then come back

Pay attention to what I have to say, because it's important and proves my point. Don't try to ignore it...and please do respond.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ck-level-2-vs-2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350/

Notice the GT stops in considerably less distance and has a significantly higher skid-pad rating yet is still significantly slower (2 seconds) around Grattan raceway than the GT350? Why is that do you think?

 

[ALUSA]

Pay attention to what I have to say, because it's important and proves my point. Don't try to ignore it...and please do respond.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ck-level-2-vs-2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350/

Notice the GT stops in considerably less distance and has a significantly higher skid-pad rating yet is still significantly slower (2 seconds) around Grattan raceway than the GT350? Why is that do you think?

Higher rpm hold and power during turns, better transmission and better track oriented chassis, engine and diff overheat on the GTPP2 and possible powercut due to engine overheating. Unfortunately there is a reason Ford is pushing the GT350 over the PP2 for tracking, otherwise it wouldn’t make sense, would it?

 

[millhouse]

Higher rpm hold and power during turns, better transmission and better track oriented chassis, engine and diff overheat on the GTPP2 and possible powercut due to engine overheating. Unfortunately there is a reason Ford is pushing the GT350 over the PP2 for tracking, otherwise it wouldn’t make sense, would it?

I'm sorry, but the engine and diff did not overheat...and power on the GT was not cut. Care to make up some more excuses instead of stating the obvious? I'd love to hear them.

I pose a question again. What performance data proves that the ZLE can outperform the GT500 CFTP on a road coarse that was presented in that article....given the reference data I provided you? I've responded with data to prove my point. Now prove yours.

 

[ALUSA]

Pay attention to what I have to say, because it's important and proves my point. Don't try to ignore it...and please do respond.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...ck-level-2-vs-2019-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350/

Notice the GT stops in considerably less distance and has a significantly higher skid-pad rating yet is still significantly slower (2 seconds) around Grattan raceway than the GT350? Why is that do you think?

So i would have welcomed you to camaro6g but I don’t have an account there. So you lost your bet and according to your own words the GT500 is a failure and its Game Over, Done, Fin for your arguments. It was a pleasure sir. So when do we expect you to buy a camaro?

 

[millhouse]

So i would have welcomed you to camaro6g but I don’t have an account there. So you lost your bet and according to your own words the GT500 is a failure and its Game Over, Done, Fin for your arguments. It was a pleasure sir. So when do we expect you to buy a camaro?

Are you high?

 

[ALUSA]

Are you high?

It all started in 2014 when Ford said they benchmarked the Porsche 911 when they came up with the S550 mustang gt performance pack. They skipped the Gen 5 camaro SS1LE. They did try to make a point with the GT350 but it was little late and now the GT500. They tried almost everything with each high performance model, i ll give you that, but there is so much you can do. Marketing gimmick comparisons to Porsche and Subaru’s did help a little.

The car is a straight line monster behind a Dodge Demon and still handles great but unfortunately not enough. The car is way too late and didn’t hit all the marks. Lessons learned was also never considered. For example the car is over 4200 lbs with 760 hp, why not give it 335’s or 355’s in the rear with a hot wide bodykit on the CFTP version is beyond me. Even that tiny bit of a change might have helped it. Its just bizarre. Ford is way focused on sales and they don’t seem to care. They even made comments regarding not being after lap times. They can still choose a road course with long stretches and declare the GT500 CFTP the king of road coarse. Maybe GM messes up the next gen. Lets hope the lt2 won’t end up in the regular camaro.

 

[Ed M]

Its just bizarre. Ford is way focused on sales

Yes, he is high.

 

[millhouse]

Yes, he is high.

Yup lol.

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