GT500 CFTP vs 2024 Camaro Z28

[Hack]

If GM does a Z28, I really hope they make it livable on the street. Keep the interior electronics and sound deadening. Don't do super expensive bits and bobs like extra thin glass. Sacrifice a few second's worth of magazine lap times to make a much better car. Set it up more like a 1SS 1LE except with a much better engine with dual overhead cams. And don't use the stickiest tires that most people can't afford to run on a car that drives 5-10,000 miles a year. Use ~300 tread wear tires and don't put crazy stiff springs and shocks in it like the ZLE either.

Yes, the magazine times would probably be slower than the GT500 and ZLE, but the car would be way better in general. There's no reason it needs to compete with any other particular car in lap times.

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[MAGS1]

If GM does a Z28, I really hope they make it livable on the street. Keep the interior electronics and sound deadening. Don't do super expensive bits and bobs like extra thin glass. Sacrifice a few second's worth of magazine lap times to make a much better car. Set it up more like a 1SS 1LE except with a much better engine with dual overhead cams. And don't use the stickiest tires that most people can't afford to run on a car that drives 5-10,000 miles a year. Use ~300 tread wear tires and don't put crazy stiff springs and shocks in it like the ZLE either.

Yes, the magazine times would probably be slower than the GT500 and ZLE, but the car would be way better in general. There's no reason it needs to compete with any other particular car in lap times.

I’m the opposite. If they do it, I hope they go balls to the wall. Supercar 3R tires, track suspension, the whole nine yards. Why make it like the SS 1LE, they already offer that option. Send it out with a bang because unless Mary B and everyone at GM shifts their thinking, the Camaro as we all know it (ICE) will be dead for good after next year.

 

[DopamineQuest]

I’m the opposite. If they do it, I hope they go balls to the wall. Supercar 3R tires, track suspension, the whole nine yards. Why make it like the SS 1LE, they already offer that option. Send it out with a bang because unless Mary B and everyone at GM shifts their thinking, the Camaro as we all know it (ICE) will be dead for good after next year.

Yea, if they're gonna put a $30k engine in the thing, and possibly a $20k DCT, they may as well go balls to the wall. Take advantage of the Camaro's excellent chassis and make it an even better track monster than the 1LE's.

 

[Hack]

I’m the opposite. If they do it, I hope they go balls to the wall. Supercar 3R tires, track suspension, the whole nine yards. Why make it like the SS 1LE, they already offer that option. Send it out with a bang because unless Mary B and everyone at GM shifts their thinking, the Camaro as we all know it (ICE) will be dead for good after next year.

It will have a decent (edit: most would say great, depending on longevity) engine in it. That's what will make it much better than a 1LE. I would rather see it livable for most people on the street, not like the last Z28 and the ZLE where most people wouldn't enjoy a road trip or a longer cruise.

They've already done too much of the over the top BS that gives a fake magazine number that doesn't reflect the car's real capabilities. I want them to make an enjoyable car rather than a bragging rights vehicle no one really wants to drive.

Yea, if they're gonna put a $30k engine in the thing, and possibly a $20k DCT, they may as well go balls to the wall. Take advantage of the Camaro's excellent chassis and make it an even better track monster than the 1LE's.

It would be really dumb to just duplicate the Corvette and put a DCT in it. They already have a car for the C&C crowd. They should make one for people who love to drive.

Are you saying they are going to change the chassis? So far it's been shown to be similar to the Mustang, except more expensive to produce and less enjoyable to live with.

 

[AZlb5.0]

I think hands down that if the Z/28 comes with a manual 7 speed like C7Z06s did with that 5.5 670hp engine that steal some customers from the GT500 list. One can only hope.

 

[Joshinator99]

It will have a decent (edit: most would say great, depending on longevity) engine in it. That's what will make it much better than a 1LE. I would rather see it livable for most people on the street, not like the last Z28 and the ZLE where most people wouldn't enjoy a road trip or a longer cruise.

They've already done too much of the over the top BS that gives a fake magazine number that doesn't reflect the car's real capabilities. I want them to make an enjoyable car rather than a bragging rights vehicle no one really wants to drive.



It would be really dumb to just duplicate the Corvette and put a DCT in it. They already have a car for the C&C crowd. They should make one for people who love to drive.

Are you saying they are going to change the chassis? So far it's been shown to be similar to the Mustang, except more expensive to produce and less enjoyable to live with.

I own both cars (‘17 2SS Camaro and ‘22 GT Premium) and can say unequivocally that there is no comparison…the Alpha chassis is superior by a wide margin. I love the Mustang and Ford did so much good (wideband, port & DI injection, forged pistons, 7400 RPM redline, etc) but the chassis is the one spot that the Camaro is significantly ahead on. Just my 2 cents of course but I’ve driven them back to back on the same roads…

 

[Hack]

I own both cars (‘17 2SS Camaro and ‘22 GT Premium) and can say unequivocally that there is no comparison…the Alpha chassis is superior by a wide margin. I love the Mustang and Ford did so much good (wideband, port & DI injection, forged pistons, 7400 RPM redline, etc) but the chassis is the one spot that the Camaro is significantly ahead on. Just my 2 cents of course but I’ve driven them back to back on the same roads…

The Camaro has stiffer springs and shocks than a base GT Mustang, but that's not chassis. That's suspension.

If we are talking about handling, a base GT and even a PP1 Mustang are extremely and overly soft in my opinion. I'm not advocating that level of compliance in a Camaro. That wouldn't work any better for handling in a Camaro than it does for a Mustang. I'm just not advocating suspension so stiff it will bounce your head off the roof of the car like what happened to Lieberman when he was reviewing the ZLE.

More like Mach 1 HP, GT350, SS 1LE levels of stiffness in my opinion are really good for a road car. I would be ok with somewhat stiffer, like my GR86 stiffness, but not hurt your back hate to drive it stiffness.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

The Camaro has stiffer springs and shocks than a base GT Mustang, but that's not chassis. That's suspension.

If we are talking about handling, a base GT and even a PP1 Mustang are extremely and overly soft in my opinion. I'm not advocating that level of compliance in a Camaro. That wouldn't work any better for handling in a Camaro than it does for a Mustang. I'm just not advocating suspension so stiff it will bounce your head off the roof of the car like what happened to Lieberman when he was reviewing the ZLE.

More like Mach 1 HP, GT350, SS 1LE levels of stiffness in my opinion are really good for a road car. I would be ok with somewhat stiffer, like my GR86 stiffness, but not hurt your back hate to drive it stiffness.

But stiffer springs isn't the only difference between an SS and a GT. As far as the ZLE - GM calls it the "extreme track package" for a reason. It's not supposed to be comfy. My ZL1 isn't that stiff in tour mode. It's been a while since I drove my '18 Mustang GT PP1 w/ MagneRide, but from what I can recall the ride in my ZL1 isn't any stiffer than the GT. And I can say for sure that the ZL1 has far, far superior damping. The GT bounced around on bumpy surface where the ZL1, even in stiffer modes, is much more settled.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

It will have a decent (edit: most would say great, depending on longevity) engine in it. That's what will make it much better than a 1LE. I would rather see it livable for most people on the street, not like the last Z28 and the ZLE where most people wouldn't enjoy a road trip or a longer cruise.

They've already done too much of the over the top BS that gives a fake magazine number that doesn't reflect the car's real capabilities. I want them to make an enjoyable car rather than a bragging rights vehicle no one really wants to drive.



It would be really dumb to just duplicate the Corvette and put a DCT in it. They already have a car for the C&C crowd. They should make one for people who love to drive.

Are you saying they are going to change the chassis? So far it's been shown to be similar to the Mustang, except more expensive to produce and less enjoyable to live with.

I could be down with a Z28 that has the ZLE wheel/tire setup (325s in the rear and lighter 19" wheels) and aero (but as I said previously, upgraded to produce equal or more downforce with less drag) and slightly more aggressive SS 1LE/ZL1 suspension but still livable, with the LT6 and ZL1 front end (not the SS 1LE front end) and wider fenders. That would be very fast on a track and much more comfortable than the ZLE's stiffer suspension. Maybe they could even offer ZLE tire sizes in the Supercar 3 (non R) tires. Still great tires, but longer lasting and more livable.

 

[308 Cal. Bullitt]

I own both cars (‘17 2SS Camaro and ‘22 GT Premium) and can say unequivocally that there is no comparison…the Alpha chassis is superior by a wide margin. I love the Mustang and Ford did so much good (wideband, port & DI injection, forged pistons, 7400 RPM redline, etc) but the chassis is the one spot that the Camaro is significantly ahead on. Just my 2 cents of course but I’ve driven them back to back on the same roads…

Similar to your '22 Premium, we owned a loaded '19 Bullitt (more/less its a Premium PP1 w/Mag Ride- Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Summer tires)...

...followed by ownership of the GT500 w/4S Pilot Sport tires. Same surfaces.
Between these 2 Fords - no comparison.
Its not an individual component, or a singular system that sets these 2 Stangs apart. Its the entire package of the Shelby, that Ford crafted w/congruence. These 2 cars are not anything alike, when driven hard.
Most who haven't experienced the GT500, think its a GT w/a few trinkets, & a Whipple atop will equal the playing field. By all means, allow the disillusioned to continue believing that idea. It seems plausible on paper, cuz thats how they derive at it. Snake owners would not buy into this circa '20 propagated myth via forums.

The Camaro Alpha chassis is quite good, & possibly better that the 500, if you could quantify them both, by some
'imaginary equivalence spell',
only the Minds Eye could conjure up. Cuz GM isn't building a Z28 w/DCT for a VERY limited production run of 1 yr.
[The 3yr run of the GT500 is barely enough time for its features a unique components, to be justified from a cost standpoint.]

Unfortunately, the '14/'15 Z28 was not what we deem a success, from our view. Others may feel differently. It may have proved that very few people today, want a street legal car that omits the comforts that the Gen5 Z28 left out. We researched buying a used one ourselves. Its Carbon Ceramic brakes can be a turn off for at least a few buyers, new & used. It truly was closer to a track racecar, than even the 500, 1 may argue. I like limited production cars, but they can be a tangled nest of x-mas lights. Fun to look at & fire up, if you can work thru the issues they pose. Like limited aftermarket support for a small run of cars.

Back to the topic of braking- the extra large, 'hold the pepperoni' rotors & associated components on Carroll's namesake, work so much better than our PP1 brakes, along w/the adhesion of the 305/315s obviously. Ppint out qwikly that these 2 Mustangs are not even comparable when driven under cornering duress. The previous Gen Shelby brakes were not as enjoyable to use either. Engineers got more airflow to this platform.

Can we all agree the Z28 isn't getting built, unless someone with real authority at GM wants to jeopardize, & lose their job. It didn't workout ~8yrs ago, if profit was a goal, & building it solely to poke the Shelby in the eye, will not please anyone who answers to the price of GM quarterly profits. It would be a Hemorrhage of money.
Another pipe dream, not unlike a 7G Retro Boss 429. We all want to see them both, & yet, its not happening. Not with DC/Whitehouse drawing up new EPA mandates every week. It was Dish washers last week, & gas stoves a month before that. Oh, & clothes washers are being scorned as well. & new car restrictions on gas burners.

So yes... equip the Camaro equally, & it will do very well against its 5+ decade nemesis.
Assuming the driver knows the track very well, since you can't see out of the Z28's greenhouse on the off-camber downhills at Ozark or Willow all that well...( sarcasm )

One could argue a reason few boomers bought this GM Alpha platform, (which didn't sell well) is due to how some said they cant see out of it any better than a German U-boat on a foggy day. Shows us it takes more than good handling chassis now-a-days, to sell a V8 muscle car marketed as a sports car. The Cadillac took the Camaro buyers, & the Corvette took their wives.

Good thing is.... time will tell. Hope Im wrong.

 

[Hack]

But stiffer springs isn't the only difference between an SS and a GT. As far as the ZLE - GM calls it the "extreme track package" for a reason. It's not supposed to be comfy. My ZL1 isn't that stiff in tour mode. It's been a while since I drove my '18 Mustang GT PP1 w/ MagneRide, but from what I can recall the ride in my ZL1 isn't any stiffer than the GT. And I can say for sure that the ZL1 has far, far superior damping. The GT bounced around on bumpy surface where the ZL1, even in stiffer modes, is much more settled.

I haven't driven the '18 PP1 with Magneride, so I'll take your word for it. I assume the PP1 specific programming of the Magneride is the culprit for the bouncing you are experiencing. My 2017 PP1 with stock non-MR suspension rode like a Cadillac. ULTRA comfy, never disturbed by any bumps, but not nearly firm enough for even mild on-road performance driving in my opinion. With Ford's track handling kit, it's way more buttoned down, but still not overly firm. IMO it's just about right for a daily driven street vehicle. The GR86 is slightly more firm than the FP track handling kit, but it's also slightly more disturbed by larger bumps.

I had Magneride in my GT350 and it worked great for body control on track, but I didn't love the artificial feel of the Magneride on rougher roads. It wasn't bouncy like your '18 PP1 either. The level of firmness was perfect for a daily and I always enjoyed driving it. When I say artificial feel I'm really picking nits. I slightly prefer stiffer springs with standard performance shocks over the Magneride for daily driving. Partially because I wouldn't want to pay to replace a MR shock. Of course I'd much rather still have the GT350 and "suffer" with the Magneride vs. my modded PP1. I chose the PP1 for cheaper consumables.

 

[SRT]

If GM built the z28 it will for sure be better than a 4100lb boat on the track. 1/4 mile sure the GT5 will win due to a supercharger advantage. Even tho I'm not sold on Camaro looks, a z28 with an LT6 motor and manual would be a fricken dream. Someone already said it, that car will probably weight in around 3700lbs with just that motor swap since its not going to require a supercharger and everything else that supports that (radiators). Maybe even close to 3500lbs when you give it the z06 z07 package treatment, carbon hood/trunk, carbon wheels and rotors.

But all of this is a pipe dream because this would easily be a $120k camaro + adm.

 

[Hack]

If GM built the z28 it will for sure be better than a 4100lb boat on the track. 1/4 mile sure the GT5 will win due to a supercharger advantage. Even tho I'm not sold on Camaro looks, a z28 with an LT6 motor and manual would be a fricken dream. Someone already said it, that car will probably weight in around 3700lbs with just that motor swap since its not going to require a supercharger and everything else that supports that (radiators). Maybe even close to 3500lbs when you give it the z06 z07 package treatment, carbon hood/trunk, carbon wheels and rotors.

But all of this is a pipe dream because this would easily be a $120k camaro + adm.

I think the weight would be higher than you are saying due to more cooling needed plus stronger drivetrain components with a more powerful engine and I'm sure GM could sell the Camaro with this engine for less than what you mentioned. It should help that the engine wouldn't be only for the Camaro. IMO it should cost about what the GT350 cost based on having a good DOHC V8 engine (hopefully offered without carbon bits to be less of a garage queen).

 

[MAGS1]

Pricing is an interesting question. Currently the ZL1 is the top dog in Camaro world. So, does Chevy put the Z28 over that for this last run? I wouldn’t think so but it’s possible. If the Z28 is not the top trim for this last run, pricing will be somewhere between 2SS and ZL1. If they do make it the top dog, now you’re talking Vette pricing.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I think the weight would be higher than you are saying due to more cooling needed plus stronger drivetrain components with a more powerful engine and I'm sure GM could sell the Camaro with this engine for less than what you mentioned. It should help that the engine wouldn't be only for the Camaro. IMO it should cost about what the GT350 cost based on having a good DOHC V8 engine (hopefully offered without carbon bits to be less of a garage queen).

We’ve been over the weight. The supercharged ZLE M6 weighs ~3,840 lbs. Remove the supercharger and intercooling circuit and heat exchangers, and the car would weigh less. Not to mention the drivetrain for a 650 ft lbs supercharged would be plenty beefy enough for a NA V8. Add in other weight loss tidbits and a theoretical Z28 would be low 3,7xx lbs.

For another comparison, the 6th Gen Alpha Camaro weighs 150-200 lbs less than the 5th Gen, trim for trim. The 5th Gen Z28 was 3,860 lbs, with carbon ceramics. Subtract 175 lbs and add back 40 for iron brakes and you get 3,725 lbs., with carbon ceramic brakes optioned in it comes in under 3,700 lbs. I just don’t see anyway that it would weigh more than a ZLE.

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