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GT500 ADM disappearing

DopamineQuest

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No most understand that there are many people with more money than brains.
This is just the standard parroted cope. In GENERAL, the more intelligence you have, the more likely you are to end up in a better financial situation in life.
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oregongt350

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Ok, read the entire thread. Stay with me, it's a little winded (long) but has meaning and a point.
---------

Blah Blah Blah how do these threads get started. How condescending!!!!

My simple Cliffs Notes regarding ADM:

So if I owned a Hamburger Joint and it had (2) drive throughs:

- Left drive through, I sell a regular plain old fashioned cheeseburger for $5.00

- Right drive through, I sell the SAME EXACT cheeseburger, but it's $25.00

Explain to me why anyone would pay $25.00 for the SAME item, when they can get it for $5.00, with very minimal effort . . .
--------------------

To ME, paying ADM for anything is just wasteful from the perspective that it doesn't take much effort to find the same product without ADM. Even for instance a car that isn't within your exact ZIP or ZIP radius, a potential Buyer could still get a better deal even with the vehicle shipped for less than one with ADM...

While I get the whole "it's ma-money, and I'll do as I please" or the "wanna-gotta-have its" or the "be first on the block"..... yes, I get all of that...

To ME is just shows lack of common sense to willfully pay MORE "just because" when if spending some time researching or getting outside the box with little effort, has a greater reward by paying less and maybe putting what would have been the delta "ADM money" into something else, anything else.......

In no way am I trashing anyone - but just from a logical and realistic perspective, paying ADM is just saying to these Dealerships that what they are doing is A-OK.... when it's really not.

ADM doesn't benefit the Manufacturer, it only benefits the Dealer. ADM is not a Manufacturer sponsored add-on at all. In fact, some don't realize that paying ADM over MSRP could be detrimental IF the Buyer ever has to file a Lemon/Buy Back claim. Ford RAV won't entertain any cost paid above MSRP. They won't entertain it because ADM was not an original line item on the Manufacturers Window Sticker at all. The recovery of the ADM delta would be the Buyer going back to the Selling Dealership and trying to get them to cough up the ADM delta.

One last thing too - paying ADM only puts the original purchaser upside down when it comes to future vehicle value. Just because a vehicle is a limited edition does not mean it's going to be an "investment" or that it may retain a value greater than when it was new. Just because the current financial or market climate may be off kilter also doesn't mean the vehicle value will remain higher than it was when new.

-----------

Case in point is the 2000 Cobra R. IIRC, that vehicle had an MSRP of roughly $58k; back then when those hit the market that Cobra was THE "top dog Mustang" and most powerful ever from Ford. ADM on a 00R was costing buyers between $20k-25k+ over MSRP, so roughly total purchase of approx. $78k-$83k out the door.

Then 2003/04 Supercharged Cobras hit the market, and what used to be the hottest Cobra (00R) had its value tanked. It tanked because for roughly $34k, one could have a brand new, more powerful, faster and easily modifiable Cobra for less than HALF of what the "King" 00R cost.

Fast forward another 7 years from 2004 to 2011, the 00R wasn't worth more than $45k.. I recall seeing many even listed at $39k-$42k... Those who paid $78k-83k+ couldn't even unload an R for $40k, let alone $78k-83k+. Fast forward again up to year 2018, the 00R was just starting to command north of $40k, lucky if one could get $55k+... Again, buyers who paid $78k-$83k+ are still in the negative.

Just recently in the last 3-5 years has the 00R finally surged past the $40k-$50k slump and prime examples are fetching in the $100k-$140k range, depending on if it's in the wrapper, super low or no miles, low SVT Build #, has all docs and if not ever raced.

An ORIGINAL owner who still may have their 00R from new who paid $78k-$83k+, is only now, 23 years later, able to not only get to break even, but get out of the negative equity and be on the positive side.

Another forum I'm on, someone was happy an 00R sold for $120k.... sure, the guy who paid $78-$83K+ is happy, but who's happier - the guy who waited 23 years to recoup $78k-$83k+, or the other guys who bought an 00R new @ MSRP (or lower)....

Common sense shouldn't be sidelined "just because" A) the vehicle is a "limited production" or that B) who cares "it's ma-money"... and foolishly pay ANY Dealer ADM, because in doing so there is the possibility of being in negative equity.

Don't let the Dealerships win with their ADM fees and tactics; there isn't any good reason to pay ADM. If people stop paying ADM, the ADM will disappear because for every day that vehicle sits on a Dealer's lot, they're losing money and it's a liability.

🚶‍♂️🎤
 

Germansheperd

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Ok, read the entire thread. Stay with me, it's a little winded (long) but has meaning and a point.
---------

My simple Cliffs Notes regarding ADM:

So if I owned a Hamburger Joint and it had (2) drive throughs:

- Left drive through, I sell a regular plain old fashioned cheeseburger for $5.00

- Right drive through, I sell the SAME EXACT cheeseburger, but it's $25.00

Explain to me why anyone would pay $25.00 for the SAME item, when they can get it for $5.00, with very minimal effort . . .
--------------------

To ME, paying ADM for anything is just wasteful from the perspective that it doesn't take much effort to find the same product without ADM. Even for instance a car that isn't within your exact ZIP or ZIP radius, a potential Buyer could still get a better deal even with the vehicle shipped for less than one with ADM...

While I get the whole "it's ma-money, and I'll do as I please" or the "wanna-gotta-have its" or the "be first on the block"..... yes, I get all of that...

To ME is just shows lack of common sense to willfully pay MORE "just because" when if spending some time researching or getting outside the box with little effort, has a greater reward by paying less and maybe putting what would have been the delta "ADM money" into something else, anything else.......

In no way am I trashing anyone - but just from a logical and realistic perspective, paying ADM is just saying to these Dealerships that what they are doing is A-OK.... when it's really not.

ADM doesn't benefit the Manufacturer, it only benefits the Dealer. ADM is not a Manufacturer sponsored add-on at all. In fact, some don't realize that paying ADM over MSRP could be detrimental IF the Buyer ever has to file a Lemon/Buy Back claim. Ford RAV won't entertain any cost paid above MSRP. They won't entertain it because ADM was not an original line item on the Manufacturers Window Sticker at all. The recovery of the ADM delta would be the Buyer going back to the Selling Dealership and trying to get them to cough up the ADM delta.

One last thing too - paying ADM only puts the original purchaser upside down when it comes to future vehicle value. Just because a vehicle is a limited edition does not mean it's going to be an "investment" or that it may retain a value greater than when it was new. Just because the current financial or market climate may be off kilter also doesn't mean the vehicle value will remain higher than it was when new.

-----------

Case in point is the 2000 Cobra R. IIRC, that vehicle had an MSRP of roughly $58k; back then when those hit the market that Cobra was THE "top dog Mustang" and most powerful ever from Ford. ADM on a 00R was costing buyers between $20k-25k+ over MSRP, so roughly total purchase of approx. $78k-$83k out the door.

Then 2003/04 Supercharged Cobras hit the market, and what used to be the hottest Cobra (00R) had its value tanked. It tanked because for roughly $34k, one could have a brand new, more powerful, faster and easily modifiable Cobra for less than HALF of what the "King" 00R cost.

Fast forward another 7 years from 2004 to 2011, the 00R wasn't worth more than $45k.. I recall seeing many even listed at $39k-$42k... Those who paid $78k-83k+ couldn't even unload an R for $40k, let alone $78k-83k+. Fast forward again up to year 2018, the 00R was just starting to command north of $40k, lucky if one could get $55k+... Again, buyers who paid $78k-$83k+ are still in the negative.

Just recently in the last 3-5 years has the 00R finally surged past the $40k-$50k slump and prime examples are fetching in the $100k-$140k range, depending on if it's in the wrapper, super low or no miles, low SVT Build #, has all docs and if not ever raced.

An ORIGINAL owner who still may have their 00R from new who paid $78k-$83k+, is only now, 23 years later, able to not only get to break even, but get out of the negative equity and be on the positive side.

Another forum I'm on, someone was happy an 00R sold for $120k.... sure, the guy who paid $78-$83K+ is happy, but who's happier - the guy who waited 23 years to recoup $78k-$83k+, or the other guys who bought an 00R new @ MSRP (or lower)....

Common sense shouldn't be sidelined "just because" A) the vehicle is a "limited production" or that B) who cares "it's ma-money"... and foolishly pay ANY Dealer ADM, because in doing so there is the possibility of being in negative equity.

Don't let the Dealerships win with their ADM fees and tactics; there isn't any good reason to pay ADM. If people stop paying ADM, the ADM will disappear because for every day that vehicle sits on a Dealer's lot, they're losing money and it's a liability.

🚶‍♂️🎤
I sold our 2000R at the dealer I was selling at back then for 8k over.
 

Germansheperd

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if I recall, GM doesn't allow their dealers ADM? - like on the C8 'vette. I was contemplating that but decided to stay away from the ugly but nimble Z06.
You recalled wrong they were up to 90k ADM on Z06’s.
 

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oregongt350

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This is just the standard parroted cope. In GENERAL, the more intelligence you have, the more likely you are to end up in a better financial situation in life.
Knowing how to make money in a particular field whether its fence building or neurosurgery is one thing. Being savvy, is a whole different deal. I know plenty of successful people that are great in their field but dumb as rocks in other areas. If they have a niche they make even more $$.
 

shogun32

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All I know is people who complain about ADM all the time better be buying their houses at cost of material and labor and not market price 🤣🤣🤣
what, so Ford is selling cars without any profit margin? Don't be silly. Now you DO have a point about new (or used) construction pricing which has MASSIVE ADM baked into the ask far beyond a reasonable profit margin for the builder - based on local demand.

When millions of people pay ADM on housing (visible line-item or not) you get just mind-boggling economic dislocation ala 2008 and 2023/4. I haven't bought property for 20 years because the pricing with it's implied ADM in metro-areas is so outrageous "I'm NOT touching that even with your d**k" as the saying goes. For example the house I'm in - built and sold to owner for 240K in 1998. "Worth" today approx 600k. Give it a few more months, then 500k and falling back to inflation-adjusted currency basis of 450K. And that doesn't even take into account depreciation on the asset. So fair PURCHASE price today is probably low to mid-3's.

You do not make money when you sell, you do when you BUY.

Problem with housing is it's necessary so the feedback loop is a bit muted. Cars, and completely pointless cars like Mustangs, and in spades the GT350/500 version, on the other hand are fully discretionary so the BS comes out of the market RIGHT QUICK when the tulips start to look a little brown, and headwinds start to blow.
 
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Evolvd

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what, so Ford is selling cars without any profit margin? Don't be silly. Now you DO have a point about new (or used) construction pricing which has MASSIVE ADM baked into the ask far beyond a reasonable profit margin for the builder - based on local demand.

When millions of people pay ADM on housing (visible line-item or not) you get just mind-boggling economic dislocation ala 2008 and 2023/4. I haven't bought property for 20 years because the pricing with it's implied ADM in metro-areas is so outrageous "I'm NOT touching that even with your d**k" as the saying goes. For example the house I'm in - built and sold to owner for 240K in 1998. "Worth" today approx 600k. Give it a few more months, then 500k and falling back to inflation-adjusted currency basis of 450K. And that doesn't even take into account depreciation on the asset. So fair PURCHASE price today is probably low to mid-3's.

You do not make money when you sell, you do when you BUY.

Problem with housing is it's necessary so the feedback loop is a bit muted. Cars, and completely pointless cars like Mustangs, and in spades the GT350/500 version, on the other hand are fully discretionary so the BS comes out of the market RIGHT QUICK when the tulips start to look a little brown, and headwinds start to blow.
That was sarcasm
 

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Solarhermit

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Matt: "You do not make money when you sell, you do when you BUY."

?????? How do you make money when you buy???? Cash out is negative until I sell. And if I sell low, then I lose money - not make it.

But, I think I do get what you are trying to say: You gotta spend money to make money. So, why stay out of an escalating market??

I bought rural land 20 years ago and now it has increased in market value by 10x...and that is after the downturn in this oil town up north. I would be royally pissed-off if I had bought a car instead. Land has historically appreciated 12% per annum in N. America. Find me a mass produced car that has even delivered a 3-4% return after costs- that is equivalent to the car's price doubling every 20 years (the cheap and dirty 72 rule of compounding interest).

Land = they aren't making anymore. Cars = making lots every year. Guess what the better investment is. And land can be just as much fun when you make love in the green grass.

P.S. How do you pull a quote from a previous post?
 

shogun32

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Matt: "You do not make money when you sell, you do when you BUY."

?????? How do you make money when you buy???? Cash out is negative until I sell. And if I sell low, then I lose money - not make it.
it's a "thought experiment". The point being be very careful about the price you buy at, and the selling is likely to be net positive. When you buy poorly, you're very likely to lose your ass when it comes time to sell. This works for tulips, Tesla stock, and mass-produced "Shelby"s.

just highly the text you want to quote, and click 'quote' on the little pop-up. Or to do it the hard way put

open square-bracket, the word "QUOTE", followed by closing square bracket
around some text. And end hte block of text with the same construct, but this time put a '/' behind the opening square bracket.
 

Inthehighdesert

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Hit the quote icon from the post you want to quote, then hit the insert quote icon in the reply box.

Matt: "You do not make money when you sell, you do when you BUY."

?????? How do you make money when you buy???? Cash out is negative until I sell. And if I sell low, then I lose money - not make it.

But, I think I do get what you are trying to say: You gotta spend money to make money. So, why stay out of an escalating market??

I bought rural land 20 years ago and now it has increased in market value by 10x...and that is after the downturn in this oil town up north. I would be royally pissed-off if I had bought a car instead. Land has historically appreciated 12% per annum in N. America. Find me a mass produced car that has even delivered a 3-4% return after costs- that is equivalent to the car's price doubling every 20 years (the cheap and dirty 72 rule of compounding interest).

Land = they aren't making anymore. Cars = making lots every year. Guess what the better investment is. And land can be just as much fun when you make love in the green grass.

P.S. How do you pull a quote from a previous post?
 

Jbraun2828

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So much jealousy around here. Not sure some of these people will ever get it.
 

Jbraun2828

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Ok, read the entire thread. Stay with me, it's a little winded (long) but has meaning and a point.
---------

My simple Cliffs Notes regarding ADM:

So if I owned a Hamburger Joint and it had (2) drive throughs:

- Left drive through, I sell a regular plain old fashioned cheeseburger for $5.00

- Right drive through, I sell the SAME EXACT cheeseburger, but it's $25.00

Explain to me why anyone would pay $25.00 for the SAME item, when they can get it for $5.00, with very minimal effort . . .
--------------------

To ME, paying ADM for anything is just wasteful from the perspective that it doesn't take much effort to find the same product without ADM. Even for instance a car that isn't within your exact ZIP or ZIP radius, a potential Buyer could still get a better deal even with the vehicle shipped for less than one with ADM...

While I get the whole "it's ma-money, and I'll do as I please" or the "wanna-gotta-have its" or the "be first on the block"..... yes, I get all of that...

To ME is just shows lack of common sense to willfully pay MORE "just because" when if spending some time researching or getting outside the box with little effort, has a greater reward by paying less and maybe putting what would have been the delta "ADM money" into something else, anything else.......

In no way am I trashing anyone - but just from a logical and realistic perspective, paying ADM is just saying to these Dealerships that what they are doing is A-OK.... when it's really not.

ADM doesn't benefit the Manufacturer, it only benefits the Dealer. ADM is not a Manufacturer sponsored add-on at all. In fact, some don't realize that paying ADM over MSRP could be detrimental IF the Buyer ever has to file a Lemon/Buy Back claim. Ford RAV won't entertain any cost paid above MSRP. They won't entertain it because ADM was not an original line item on the Manufacturers Window Sticker at all. The recovery of the ADM delta would be the Buyer going back to the Selling Dealership and trying to get them to cough up the ADM delta.

One last thing too - paying ADM only puts the original purchaser upside down when it comes to future vehicle value. Just because a vehicle is a limited edition does not mean it's going to be an "investment" or that it may retain a value greater than when it was new. Just because the current financial or market climate may be off kilter also doesn't mean the vehicle value will remain higher than it was when new.

-----------

Case in point is the 2000 Cobra R. IIRC, that vehicle had an MSRP of roughly $58k; back then when those hit the market that Cobra was THE "top dog Mustang" and most powerful ever from Ford. ADM on a 00R was costing buyers between $20k-25k+ over MSRP, so roughly total purchase of approx. $78k-$83k out the door.

Then 2003/04 Supercharged Cobras hit the market, and what used to be the hottest Cobra (00R) had its value tanked. It tanked because for roughly $34k, one could have a brand new, more powerful, faster and easily modifiable Cobra for less than HALF of what the "King" 00R cost.

Fast forward another 7 years from 2004 to 2011, the 00R wasn't worth more than $45k.. I recall seeing many even listed at $39k-$42k... Those who paid $78k-83k+ couldn't even unload an R for $40k, let alone $78k-83k+. Fast forward again up to year 2018, the 00R was just starting to command north of $40k, lucky if one could get $55k+... Again, buyers who paid $78k-$83k+ are still in the negative.

Just recently in the last 3-5 years has the 00R finally surged past the $40k-$50k slump and prime examples are fetching in the $100k-$140k range, depending on if it's in the wrapper, super low or no miles, low SVT Build #, has all docs and if not ever raced.

An ORIGINAL owner who still may have their 00R from new who paid $78k-$83k+, is only now, 23 years later, able to not only get to break even, but get out of the negative equity and be on the positive side.

Another forum I'm on, someone was happy an 00R sold for $120k.... sure, the guy who paid $78-$83K+ is happy, but who's happier - the guy who waited 23 years to recoup $78k-$83k+, or the other guys who bought an 00R new @ MSRP (or lower)....

Common sense shouldn't be sidelined "just because" A) the vehicle is a "limited production" or that B) who cares "it's ma-money"... and foolishly pay ANY Dealer ADM, because in doing so there is the possibility of being in negative equity.

Don't let the Dealerships win with their ADM fees and tactics; there isn't any good reason to pay ADM. If people stop paying ADM, the ADM will disappear because for every day that vehicle sits on a Dealer's lot, they're losing money and it's a liability.

🚶‍♂️🎤
The difference is the hamburger cost $25. Either pay it or buy Ramon noodles. The rest of your nonsense is just that. Worry about you
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