GT350R brakes on a PP2/M1 HP?

[illtal]

if using the kit that includes the gt350 front knuckle, then all you need to do for the wheel is match the specs of the gt350 front rim I would think.

you would think that, but some people want to run 19s and a lot of 19s the barrel of the wheel will not clear and SOME 20"s will not clear either, even if the offsets are similar or even exactly the same

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[DRAGOON]

been thinking about this again, so i decided to see what i could do to find out for sure, so i made a model of the Mach 1 HP wheels with the right offset and width and used a site called "Race Technologies" to find brembo brake kits for the s550 and make measuring tools with the cross section measurements, they only had 380mm and 405mm rotor though, no 394mm

front calipers clear the spokes with miles to spare, but barrel might be an issue
rear calipers are so close to the spokes but just barely clear andbarrel clearance is really tight too

the wheel models are really far from perfect because i don't have any HP wheels on hand to do measurements, but if someone does, could they give me the following measurements please?

1. distance before the barrel starts to steps in
2. diameter of the inner barrel after it steps in
3. widest point of that star-shaped piece the spokes connect to

i hope this is just an issue of needing spacers, i really like the idea of a Mach 1 with GT350 brakes

I have a extra set of M1 HP wheels I’m getting street rubber (RT660) put on as the cup 2’s on the OG wheels are for the track. I’m familiar with race technologies web site & even spoke to Brembo about my now retired track car. Get me the link to the setup your looking at as there are different ones in each class (GT, GTS , Race , GTR). I would recommend to start at the GTS as the GT is a street upgrade & NOT worthy of track duty. Also, these brake systems are priority exclusively Brembo and vary from the ones Ford uses so the caliper size and spacing could be different. Maybe call Race Technologies and speak with them about specifics. Hope this helps.

 

[EFI]

are the 6piston R calipers different (better) than the PP 6 piston calipers? I thought the advantage of the gt350 brakes were the ability to run 15.5 inch gt 350 2 piece rotors?

Yes they are better, but I'm not an engineer and I can't tell you the exact dynamics. But I'm sure reading any comparisons between the GT and the 350 they will mention brake improvements. I do know they are made using different material and they have a cast in bridge in the back instead of the pin that the PP calipers have.

This does make pad swaps a bit harder, but I did get the Caliperfexion stud kit with the extensions to just slide back the calipers and do pad swaps much easier.

I chose to go with the 15" rotors for cost and wheel options. I track the car alot and 1 piece steel rotors are much cheaper to replace and I was able to use my current 18" track wheels rather than have to buy all new bigger ones. I sacrifice some weight on the rotors but mostly make that up on smaller lighter wheels.

 

[roket]

I have a extra set of M1 HP wheels I’m getting street rubber (RT660) put on as the cup 2’s on the OG wheels are for the track. I’m familiar with race technologies web site & even spoke to Brembo about my now retired track car. Get me the link to the setup your looking at as there are different ones in each class (GT, GTS , Race , GTR). I would recommend to start at the GTS as the GT is a street upgrade & NOT worthy of track duty. Also, these brake systems are priority exclusively Brembo and vary from the ones Ford uses so the caliper size and spacing could be different. Maybe call Race Technologies and speak with them about specifics. Hope this helps.

I'm not getting a brake kit from them, I just used the cross section things they have to get an idea of if the Ford Performance kit would fit, so here's hoping they're not too different from what Ford uses

 

[mkcotton]

i've been looking and looking all around to see if the stock Performance Pack Level 2 or Mach 1 Handling Package wheels would fit the GT350R brake upgrade kit from Ford Performance and i just can't find an answer, even American Muscle and CJ Pony Parts are giving mixed answers on yes or no

if anyone knows if it won't clear the calipers, please let me know so I don't waste $4-5K on a kit i can't use, as i'm not sacrificing my (coming soon) M1 HP wheels for them

I will try to leave out the tears, but I tried this on my PP1 with PP2 wheels (same size as the Mach 1 wheels)... just 2 weeks ago. two things: 1) I have Magna ride and the front caliper conversion bracket fits, but makes the (350r) caliper sit to high (1/4") and hits the 19x10.5 wheels (offset is fine), the wheel will not turn... if you have the non-magna ride knuckles it'll fit fine. 2) my back wheels are 19x11 and currently sit on the edge of sticking out to far... so when you add the new drum brake e-brake conversion plate, it shoots the wheel out a bit over 1/4" (with 305/35/19). If you look at the Shelby wheels that is the clearance you need (back spacing and offset) to bring the wheel back into the fender well... plus give you room for 315/x/19. that kit cost me ~$4,500 and had to send it back... American Muscle was awesome. Note: for me to make this work I needed L/R Shelby steering knuckles ($650 ea. from Ford, $450 ea. from Rock Auto) and because of the switch from pinch e-brake on the GT to drum e-brake on the Shelby I would have had to buy new wheels and of course tires. If you want PP1 front (blk) Brembo brakes (no pads, hardware or rotors) and rear calipers and brackets DM, pay for shipping and they are yours (less then 2k miles on them... plus they are FREE). I changed to the Bullitt Red brakes a few years ago.

 

[roket]

I will try to leave out the tears, but I tried this on my PP1 with PP2 wheels (same size as the Mach 1 wheels)... just 2 weeks ago. two things: 1) I have Magna ride and the front caliper conversion bracket fits, but makes the (350r) caliper sit to high (1/4") and hits the 19x10.5 wheels (offset is fine), the wheel will not turn... if you have the non-magna ride knuckles it'll fit fine. 2) my back wheels are 19x11 and currently sit on the edge of sticking out to far... so when you add the new drum brake e-brake conversion plate, it shoots the wheel out a bit over 1/4" (with 305/35/19). If you look at the Shelby wheels that is the clearance you need (back spacing and offset) to bring the wheel back into the fender well... plus give you room for 315/x/19. that kit cost me ~$4,500 and had to send it back... American Muscle was awesome. Note: for me to make this work I needed L/R Shelby steering knuckles ($650 ea. from Ford, $450 ea. from Rock Auto) and because of the switch from pinch e-brake on the GT to drum e-brake on the Shelby I would have had to buy new wheels and of course tires. If you want PP1 front (blk) Brembo brakes (no pads, hardware or rotors) and rear calipers and brackets DM, pay for shipping and they are yours (less then 2k miles on them... plus they are FREE). I changed to the Bullitt Red brakes a few years ago.

alright, i'll be sure to get some sandpaper and a grinder to shorten that caliper (not really)
ok but really, thank you for this information, it's incredibly useful
i'm not worried how far the tires poke out, and thanks for the offer but M1s come with PP1 brakes stock

 

[Brazos609]

alright, i'll be sure to get some sandpaper and a grinder to shorten that caliper
ok but really, thank you for this information, it's incredibly useful
i'm not worried how far the tires poke out, and thanks for the offer but M1s come with PP1 brakes stock

Why don't you keep your front 6-piston Brembos with 15" rotors and just swap in the GT350 rear 4-piston Brembos with 15" rotors. There's probably very little difference in performance between the GT Performance Pack 15"/36mm-36mm-36mm 6-piston Brembos and the GT350 15.5"/34mm-36mm-38mm 6-piston Brembos.

 

[roket]

Why don't you keep your front 6-piston Brembos with 15" rotors and just swap in the GT350 rear 4-piston Brembos with 15" rotors. There's probably very little difference in performance between the GT Performance Pack 15"/36mm-36mm-36mm 6-piston Brembos and the GT350 15.5"/34mm-36mm-38mm 6-piston Brembos.

4 reasons
1. i love the look of big brake rotors and calipers
2. they likely allow for a bigger brake pad
3. they come in the kit so why not
4. if i left the front ones as-is, they would be matte, but the rears would be glossy

 

[D Bergstrom]

I will try to leave out the tears, but I tried this on my PP1 with PP2 wheels (same size as the Mach 1 wheels)... just 2 weeks ago. two things: 1) I have Magna ride and the front caliper conversion bracket fits, but makes the (350r) caliper sit to high (1/4") and hits the 19x10.5 wheels (offset is fine), the wheel will not turn... if you have the non-magna ride knuckles it'll fit fine. 2) my back wheels are 19x11 and currently sit on the edge of sticking out to far... so when you add the new drum brake e-brake conversion plate, it shoots the wheel out a bit over 1/4" (with 305/35/19). If you look at the Shelby wheels that is the clearance you need (back spacing and offset) to bring the wheel back into the fender well... plus give you room for 315/x/19. that kit cost me ~$4,500 and had to send it back... American Muscle was awesome. Note: for me to make this work I needed L/R Shelby steering knuckles ($650 ea. from Ford, $450 ea. from Rock Auto) and because of the switch from pinch e-brake on the GT to drum e-brake on the Shelby I would have had to buy new wheels and of course tires. If you want PP1 front (blk) Brembo brakes (no pads, hardware or rotors) and rear calipers and brackets DM, pay for shipping and they are yours (less then 2k miles on them... plus they are FREE). I changed to the Bullitt Red brakes a few years ago.

Just out of curiosity, why would non magneride knuckles work? If the caliper is hitting the barrel of the wheel, that is a function of the overall diameter of the brake package itself. Since the dimension is based on the rotor diameter and the caliper has to sit on the rotor at a certain location, I wouldn't think that would change with different knuckles. Not familiar with the difference in knuckles, but from a geometry standpoint, I don't see any knuckle working, but maybe I am thinking of this wrong.

It was mentioned to just get the rears. Full Tilt Boogie racing sells just a rear kit, which either the grey or red calipers, or drilled or non drilled rotors.

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/2015_S550_Brake_parts.htm

Expensive though for just rears. Probably still be better off to buy the entire M-2300-Y kit and sell the front calipers, brackets, and rotors if you just want the rears.

Doug

 

[roket]

Expensive though for just rears. Probably still be better off to buy the entire M-2300-Y kit and sell the front calipers, brackets, and rotors if you just want the rears.

wow, those are expensive
i think i would just pay the ~$800 more for the full kit

 

[mkcotton]

Why don't you keep your front 6-piston Brembos with 15" rotors and just swap in the GT350 rear 4-piston Brembos with 15" rotors. There's probably very little difference in performance between the GT Performance Pack 15"/36mm-36mm-36mm 6-piston Brembos and the GT350 15.5"/34mm-36mm-38mm 6-piston Brembos.

I thought about that, since the rear Brembo kit (15"), from Brembo is ~$5K. As I stated above... the switch from pinch e-brake (GT PP1) to 350R shoe e-brake pushes the wheel bearing assembly out about a 1/4" and I am already at width with PP2 wheels... I would need at least the rear Shelby wheel size to get the backspacing and offset needed. That would mean new wheels and tires... ~$4K. Not to mention you need to at least drop the exhaust to get access to the left and right e-brake cables (new with this kit). I am thinking about the rear Brembo kit or simply upgrade the rotors to the Steeda or Eradi-speed.

 

[illtal]

I'm at the fuck it stage and I'm probably just gonna get these Baer 6P 15" F/R kit. Should be plenty and wheels will clear no problem.

 

[mkcotton]

Just out of curiosity, why would non magneride knuckles work? If the caliper is hitting the barrel of the wheel, that is a function of the overall diameter of the brake package itself. Since the dimension is based on the rotor diameter and the caliper has to sit on the rotor at a certain location, I wouldn't think that would change with different knuckles. Not familiar with the difference in knuckles, but from a geometry standpoint, I don't see any knuckle working, but maybe I am thinking of this wrong.

It was mentioned to just get the rears. Full Tilt Boogie racing sells just a rear kit, which either the grey or red calipers, or drilled or non drilled rotors.

http://fulltiltboogieracing.com/2015_S550_Brake_parts.htm

Expensive though for just rears. Probably still be better off to buy the entire M-2300-Y kit and sell the front calipers, brackets, and rotors if you just want the rears.

Doug

That is a really good question, and it took me a bit to figure it out. Apparently Ford switched the steering knuckle between 2017 and 2018, opting to equip all mustangs 2018 and up with the magna ride steering knuckles regardless of whether they came equipped with magna ride or not (for 2018 and up, 'cept Shelby, that is a different knuckle all together). The magna ride knuckle is an integrated bearing, mount , where the 2017 standard knuckle is a traditional spindle. The magna ride knuckles are much stronger... there is a youtube quote from a Ford engineer stating as such (Google...). Then we get to our friends that sell these parts... do they test this on a 2018, 2019, 2020... I mean Ford does change somethings through the years of the same generation. So if you are one of the luck ones that have spindle based knuckles on your 2018, 2019, etc... this kit will work for you, but be mindful of the wheel size cautions... oh, when I initially test fit the rotor and caliper, before trying to mount the wheel, I notice the caliper was actually sitting a 1/4" high on the rotor... again the knuckle!!

 

[mkcotton]

you got me wondering about the steering knuckles now, so I asked the parts guys at my work and apparently Ford changed something for 2022 because the part number starts with NR3Z, and it used to be an FR3Z number, so who knows it might work without ordering new steering knuckles

It certainly could. Again, Ford makes subtle changes every year... hopefully for the better. My concern, which came true, was when "they" say it fits, did someone actually test it or are they simply going by a previous year fitment? I'd say, if you going to spend this money get the shelby knuckles and do away with the conversion bracket. Lastly, wheels size (offset and backspacing) matters...Good Luck, it's an awesome kit!

 

[roket]

It certainly could. Again, Ford makes subtle changes every year... hopefully for the better. My concern, which came true, was when "they" say it fits, did someone actually test it or are they simply going by a previous year fitment? I'd say, if you going to spend this money get the shelby knuckles and do away with the conversion bracket. Lastly, wheels size (offset and backspacing) matters...Good Luck, it's an awesome kit!

so I deleted that message because I thought I was wrong, but it's right, NR3Z-3K185-A, I wonder if they only changed one or if it's a left/right part?

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