GT350 will live past 2019 with GT500 engine block!

[JR369]

Hi All,
Ignorant ford poster here (see my brood list)... as in I have never owned a Ford, let alone a mustang, and definately not a Shelby! The reason I am posting is because I have ordered a 2019 GT350 and I am looking forward to my first Ford. Why? The main reasons are FPC, Manual, looks, sound (see FPC), muscle reputation. I think the FPC is what makes the car special (and enough for me to try out a Ford) and putting in a CPC seems to take a lot away from that, performance comparisons aside. Just my opinion. Regardless, i see a lot of posts about oil consumption and reliability. Any truth to that? Ill pretty much be driving this back and forth to work, no tracking... and occasionally pushing her to her limits (as much as a crappy driver used to German DCT's can), but just wondered if I should avoid due to engine issues. I kind of assumed it was exceptions considering how many have been produced so far... but... any feedback???

Congrats! What color and options? I suggest reading the GT350 Basics sticky thread. Lots of really good info there. As for oil consumption, there is real concern for that in previous production years. But then again the actual percentage of GT350's that this issue effects is not known. Its been accepted but not publicly acknowledged...to my knowledge anyway...that Ford made a change to new pistons and oil ring packs for the 2018+ years to address the issue along with piston slap. Honestly, here it is in 2019 and I haven't been reading or hearing about these issues with the 2018 GT350's. I think there's a couple early 2018 builds that had issues. Nobody has really pinpointed exactly when the change went into effect. The 2018's have been on the road now for a while so by my thinking, that's a positive sign. I have an April 2018 build GT350R and have no issues but mileage is still pretty low. Undoubtedly your 19 will have this update. Just follow the manual on break in and enjoy your awesome car.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...nd-regular-checks-stuff-u-need-to-know.89612/

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[Docscurlock]

The Bullitt is supposed to be gone in 2020, 2 year special edition. Maybe back in 25 years for the 75th anniversary of Bullitt. I think you are seeing a consolidation with the fact that there is to be one (so far) model of the GT500 just optioned different, ie GT500 with or without carbon fiber track pack. That is essentially the difference between the GT350/R models. So we may see GT, GT premium, Gt350 with and without track pack and GT500 with or without a track pack. Maybe a Mach 1 or Cobra Jet or new Boss(anyone listening at Ford)?

 

[LV_CarGuy]

Congrats! What color and options? I suggest reading the GT350 Basics sticky thread. Lots of really good info there. As for oil consumption, there is real concern for that in previous production years. But then again the actual percentage of GT350's that this issue effects is not known. Its been accepted but not publicly acknowledged...to my knowledge anyway...that Ford made a change to new pistons and oil ring packs for the 2018+ years to address the issue along with piston slap. Honestly, here it is in 2019 and I haven't been reading or hearing about these issues with the 2018 GT350's. I think there's a couple early 2018 builds that had issues. Nobody has really pinpointed exactly when the change went into effect. The 2018's have been on the road now for a while so by my thinking, that's a positive sign. I have an April 2018 build GT350R and have no issues but mileage is still pretty low. Undoubtedly your 19 will have this update. Just follow the manual on break in and enjoy your awesome car.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...nd-regular-checks-stuff-u-need-to-know.89612/

Awesome, thank you for the information. I knew there were some non-oil issues on the 2015-2016 (yes, I am idiot who "passed" on a new 2015), but those were addressed in subsequent model years. So I kind of assumed that any outstanding oil consumption issues would have been addressed by now... i know, bad to assume but im thinking along the same lines as you... they probably know and I really think most car brands intentionally and incrementaly address model issues until end of sale. Regardless, thanks for newbie thread... i will check it out.

Also, to answer your spec question... it took me like a year to find a dealer here in Vegas who would let me use their allocation for MSRP, but i finally convinced one! So I ordered the following:

• Performance Blue (this was the hardest part... was gonna do magnetic, but I think the new blue looks great... the lightning blue was fantastic). if it looks good on a raptor, it will be awesome on the GT350.
• No OTT - i actually WANT to get these, but the vinyl just sucks. its swirl heaven no matter what. I was sooo looking forward to painted option (which is awesome they are doing that for the GT500). so sad they dropped it!
• Tech Pack
• Handling pack (probably dont need this, but what the heck)
• car cover
• leather seats - because im fat and old and its a daily driver. :-)
• and how could i forget! PAINTED BLACK ROOF! Makes the car (paint-wise) in my mind.

I think thats it? will post pics when i get it. dont think order banks are open yet...

thanks man!

 

[JR369]

Awesome, thank you for the information. I knew there were some non-oil issues on the 2015-2016 (yes, I am idiot who "passed" on a new 2015), but those were addressed in subsequent model years. So I kind of assumed that any outstanding oil consumption issues would have been addressed by now... i know, bad to assume but im thinking along the same lines as you... they probably know and I really think most car brands intentionally and incrementaly address model issues until end of sale. Regardless, thanks for newbie thread... i will check it out.

Also, to answer your spec question... it took me like a year to find a dealer here in Vegas who would let me use their allocation for MSRP, but i finally convinced one! So I ordered the following:

• Performance Blue (this was the hardest part... was gonna do magnetic, but I think the new blue looks great... the lightning blue was fantastic). if it looks good on a raptor, it will be awesome on the GT350.
• No OTT - i actually WANT to get these, but the vinyl just sucks. its swirl heaven no matter what. I was sooo looking forward to painted option (which is awesome they are doing that for the GT500). so sad they dropped it!
• Tech Pack
• Handling pack (probably dont need this, but what the heck)
• car cover
• leather seats - because im fat and old and its a daily driver. :-)
• and how could i forget! PAINTED BLACK ROOF! Makes the car (paint-wise) in my mind.

I think thats it? will post pics when i get it. dont think order banks are open yet...

thanks man!

Sounds like it's gonna be a good lookin ride. I think the Performance Blue is an awesome color and would be my first choice with a black roof. I've had the vinyl stripes on my GT500 and I would have to agree with you on that.

 

[Allentown]

I'll leave this here "as a guide only" . Might put some of this BS back in the cow LOL.

.http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php

I ran the stock dynos through your calculator and got the following. Using these following stock dynos at the wheels and translating that to the factory types of ratings "at the crank" you get:

Brenspeed: 483 Crankhp
LMR: 495 Crankhp
StangMode 506 Crankhp
American Muscle 520 Crankhp
Lethal Performance: 503 Crankhp
CJ Pony 500 Crankhp sae correction and 513 crankhp Standard correction

Variables can of course include tire size and weight, gearing, temps, particular dyno, fuel, etc.

I also don't know how much i trust these calculators which assume they know the exact amount of parasitic drive train loss which of course they don't.

Be that as it may if any of this it to be true 460 crank hp does seem conservative. If it were an average of cars across the 3.15/3.31/3.55/3.73s with 18 19 and 20 inch wheels take at different temps and on different dynos on different days and averaged together, it would STILL be low. Were they also throwing in averages based on people driving with clogged air filters running 87 octane fuel maybe?

I can't help but think that Ford has a little over saturation withing their mustang lineup coming down the road.
EcoBoost
Gt
Bullitt
Gt350
Gt350R
Gt500

Lots of V8's in that lineup so I'd imagine something is going to have to give eventually. I also suspect the bullitt will have a shorter lifespan than any of them but I'm no expert either.

Maybe utilize the soon to be homeless voodoo engine in the upcoming GT and pretend like the coyote engines never happened (lol)? Then get rid of the bullitt which would make the next step a 350? 350 would have a different motor, suspension and styling but still leave room for the 500 to be the big dog?

Exciting times indeed

You left out Mach 1. I desperately like the Mach 1, because of how they look and sound usually.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

Using the same block for the GT350 and GT500 appears to be a great cost saving measure. I just hope Ford puts a FPC in the block that goes into the future GT350. I would not be surprised to see a CPC in a version of the GT350 with an auto transmission.

 

[Schwerin]

I'll leave this here "as a guide only" . Might put some of this BS back in the cow LOL.

.http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php

You're helpful calculator is doing the exact same formula I am. Crank - 15% = WHP
Soo, assuming that 435 is a correct number for the BULLIT at the wheels, we know that f there really is 15% loss then we get 510HP crank. If you want to assume a more conservative 12% loss, say that better machining and fluids helps some, that is still 495HP crank. Underrated either way.

If you want to assume that 460HP Crank is accurate for a 18-19 GT, we can look around and see that the 2018 GT seems to put down on average(across many dynos) 420hp at the wheels. For that to be right then the MT-82 must be an amazing transmission with only 8-9% loss to the wheels. If Ford really did manage to make a transmission that efficient, then that means the Bullitt Steeda tested actually must have dyno'd on the low side and we should expect to see others push 440 wheel.

Either the engine is under rated, Ford has a very efficient transmission and rear end, or every ones dyno reads really high.

 

[Dusten]

540.5 Perhaps the 15% parasitic drive train loss isn't really 15% these days. Or maybe "bad dyno!"

Gale Banks had a good discussion about this. Its not really a percentage, drivetrain loss doesnt increase just because power does.

Basically if your car makes 400 crank and 380 rwhp, and you install a turbo your not going to lose a linear amount.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Hi All,
Ignorant ford poster here (see my brood list)... as in I have never owned a Ford, let alone a mustang, and definately not a Shelby! The reason I am posting is because I have ordered a 2019 GT350 and I am looking forward to my first Ford. Why? The main reasons are FPC, Manual, looks, sound (see FPC), muscle reputation. I think the FPC is what makes the car special (and enough for me to try out a Ford) and putting in a CPC seems to take a lot away from that, performance comparisons aside. Just my opinion. Regardless, i see a lot of posts about oil consumption and reliability. Any truth to that? Ill pretty much be driving this back and forth to work, no tracking... and occasionally pushing her to her limits (as much as a crappy driver used to German DCT's can), but just wondered if I should avoid due to engine issues. I kind of assumed it was exceptions considering how many have been produced so far... but... any feedback???

I had the 2016 GT350 and it had the oil consumption issues which is one reason I got rid of it besides some other reasons. I hope the 2018's and beyond that Ford has got that fixed. I have not kept up with all of the changes in the last year that hopefully will remedy that. You will enjoy the car immensely as it was a leap frog over the 2014 Mustang GT Track Pack I had. I had an 2012 M3 which was a 8000rpm engine but the FPC Voodoo is a sound like no other car.

 

[Siggy550]

Steeda got 435 wheel from a stock Bullitt. That's about 510 crank with 15% loss. Even with about 12% thats, 495HP.

Even just an 93 oct tune they are putting down 457whp/400wtq. That puts it in spitting distance of the GT350's dyno numbers with more TQ. For about 10k less.

If the 2021 GT makes BULLITT power and has PP2 handling, the GT350 is going to have to step up its game to make it's price difference worth it.

Personally I think that Ford should have released the PP@ and BULLITT performance increases on the same car. Would have been a nice middle finger to the SS 1LE.

Drive a 350, you'll realize the numbers don't mean shit. The experience is so different than a GT.

 

[cbrookre]

I have a GT, and I would MUCH rather have a GT350. But alas, I cannot justify the upgrade costs and non-daily drivability. If only those lotto numbers would play out in my favor...

 

[Bullitt]

The Bullitt is supposed to be gone in 2020, 2 year special edition. Maybe back in 25 years for the 75th anniversary of Bullitt. I think you are seeing a consolidation with the fact that there is to be one (so far) model of the GT500 just optioned different, ie GT500 with or without carbon fiber track pack. That is essentially the difference between the GT350/R models. So we may see GT, GT premium, Gt350 with and without track pack and GT500 with or without a track pack. Maybe a Mach 1 or Cobra Jet or new Boss(anyone listening at Ford)?

This is true, Bullitt is gone after 2020 model year. But we know Ford promised a Hybrid Mustang with "V8 like performance" coming in 2020 (presumably as a 2021 model year car) so that's likely to fill the Bullitt's shoes. Considering Ford almost used the Mach 1 name on the electric Mustang crossover thing (now called Mach E), I think it's safe to say that they have no plans of using the name on a Mustang anymore. The only possibility is if they call the hybrid one Mach 1 to line up with the full EV crossover thing's Mach E name.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

540.5 Perhaps the 15% parasitic drive train loss isn't really 15% these days. Or maybe "bad dyno!"

470RWHP @ 15% loss is ~553HP.

People do this math incorrectly. You don't add 15% to the 470, that's just increasing it by 15%, what you're trying to calculate is what number minus 15% results in 470:

470 / 0.85 = ~552.94

Because, 552.94 - 15% = 469.999

(540.5 - 15% = 459.425, i.e., != 470 ...)

 

[roygriffin2020]

I have a GT, and I would MUCH rather have a GT350. But alas, I cannot justify the upgrade costs and non-daily drivability. If only those lotto numbers would play out in my favor...

I am unclear of why you see the GT350 as not daily drive-able. I see it as very daily drive-able. Please explain.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I also don't know how much i trust these calculators which assume they know the exact amount of parasitic drive train loss which of course they don't.

Of course what matters in the real world is numbers at the wheels but I always wondered why dynos didn't also report crank numbers. Couldn't a dyno calculate the loss by measuring how much power it took to spin the wheels with the car in neutral? That would make the dyno more expensive, needing something to power the drum(s) to spin the wheels. I guess not enough customers would spring for the crank numbers to pay for that extra cost.

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