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Grintch

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Vorschalg did all kinds of testing. I forget where you can read about it. The splitter channel ducts showed cooler brake temps. They even combined 4" hose ducts with the splitter channel ducts and that did not reduce brake temps over the channel ducts alone! That was a huge surprise. Airflow is a strange thing. Personally, I'm happy to have one less thing to fix and maintain.
Yes, if you design the car from scratch to support ducts, ducts would be better. But if you have a bunch of stuff in the way and have to twist and turn to get the air through the duct, and the duct has to move with steering travel, that duct doesn't work that well anymore.

Many real Formula cars and Prototypes have very short ducts. Shorten the duct enough and it starts looking a lot like a deflector.
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TeeLew

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The advantage of ducting is that you can feed the air exactly where you want it. When you're using normal discs, that means in the center of the hub to cool wheel bearings, disc center to go out through the vanes and onto the top of the caliper to shoot air around the pads.

If bulk scoops are doing a better job of cooling things, then it's because of shortcomings elsewhere, such as cooling vanes on the outside of the disc.

Do you guys really think pros are dummies who only run real ducting so they can find extra work to do on the car?
 

strengthrehab

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Ducting isn't bad....the pathway that is used for the s550 is horrible. Too many bends and kinks with potential to kill the hose with wide tires (as I have many times) resulting in no cooling.
 

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my contribution to this thread: the PP setup is *not* sufficient on a heavy, high powered S550 driven hard. my trials and tribulations are well documented :)

as for the duct/deflector debate, if you bend/notch the frame rails and ensure your FSB is as close to parallel as the endlinks will allow, you can run dual 2.5" hoses without destroying them from being crushed or rubbing the tires. mine looked as good as new after a weekend @ COTA. and i took caliper temps down from something north of 510 @ The Ridge (heaviest braking = 170-95) to 390 @ COTA (heaviest braking = 175-40), by adding the 2nd duct and fabricating a different backing plate:

1606270715077.png
 

fatbillybob

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Do you guys really think pros are dummies who only run real ducting so they can find extra work to do on the car?
One size does not fit all? These cars might be on track in stock form to some 600hp monster with sequential box, flared fenders, and big aero. Each car in the middle will require different things and will have different compromises. There is no surprise that I like the Vorschlag solution and it works for me because the race class that run is very close to the current Vorschlag configuration of their car. Frankly, the PP1 Bremobs are barely adequate for the job in my race class. If I was going any faster I'd be dropping the PP1 brembo's like a hot rock. Brakes are very simple. They manage heat. E=MV*2
It's a math problem...
 

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strengthrehab

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Grintch

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Ducting isn't bad....the pathway that is used for the s550 is horrible. Too many bends and kinks with potential to kill the hose with wide tires (as I have many times) resulting in no cooling.
Just like an intake manifold. Put enough kinks and twists in it and your airflow goes to hell.

My race car has very big, and straight drake ducts, unlike any bolt on kit you will find for the s550. Want to change your bodywork, suspension, uprights, brakes, etc. like boardcat. Then you can straighten out the ducts so they actually flow some air.

I trust Vorslogs testing. And as deflectors are cheaper, easier, and require less maintenance than ducts. I am happy to use them. Do I think they are the answer for every car or every situation, no.
 
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TeeLew

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Here's a good snippet:

"Many of today’s sportscars have plastic channels or deflectors bolted to the spindle that direct air towards the brakes. While they aren’t as effective as a professionally designed brake duct bringing air to the center of a disc on a racecar, they can still bring a solid amount of cooler air into the region of the brakes without dumping that air directly onto the inner disc face and causing problems. If these deflectors are on your car leave them in place. "

I'm not shitting on deflectors. Like I said earlier, that's what the Porsche Cup car has on them from the factory. They don't have heat issues with the brakes and they go faster around a track than probably any production-based Mustang ever has.

Having said this, well thought-out ducting is going to cool more efficiently than a deflector. It's also going to be heavier, more complex, more maintenance and more expensive. Different horses for different courses.
 

luc

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Used to have water cooling on my Roush Mustang T/A
Very simple system to do if you have hose ducting
 
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D K

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and the typical brake hose doesnt exactly have the best aerodynamic properties..

Yes, if you design the car from scratch to support ducts, ducts would be better. But if you have a bunch of stuff in the way and have to twist and turn to get the air through the duct, and the duct has to move with steering travel, that duct doesn't work that well anymore.

Many real Formula cars and Prototypes have very short ducts. Shorten the duct enough and it starts looking a lot like a deflector.
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