GT 500 CFTP VS ZL1 1LE

RedRaptorME

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
291
Reaction score
106
Location
Maine
First Name
Frank
Vehicle(s)
2019 ford raptor. 2019 GT 350 R Black red pinstripe. 1948 Ford 4 door sedan. 1973 stingray corvette.
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #1
Just curious if anybody can explain to me why and how a Camaro with approximately 110 HP less and less torque is able to beat a GT 500 CFTP on the track ? Is there something with the suspension or the body geometry of the Camaro that makes it faster on a track ? Something really seems off. The other issue is the GT 500 CFTP costs nearly $ 100,000.00 and the ZL1 1LE can be bought for $ 25,000.00 Less ! Ford had plenty of time to make sure the GT 500 was the better track car and it seems like they missed the boat. It just seems like when GM really sets their mind to it they are always one step ahead of ford.

 

martinjlm

Retired from GM
Joined
Feb 4, 2018
Threads
15
Messages
2,085
Reaction score
3,842
Location
Detroit
Vehicle(s)
2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
Two basic reasons, and I am saying this as a neutral automotive analyst and consultant, not as a Camaro owner.

  1. Mass. The GT500 is several hundred pounds heavier than the ZL1 and ZLE.
  2. Chassis dynamics. The ZL1 (and all 6th gen Camaros) uses the Alpha platform architecture that was developed for Cadillac. The GT500 uses the D2C platform that dates back to the S197 Mustangs. Alpha is more modern, lighter weight, stiffer, and has more modern geometry than D2C.
Ford does an amazing job with the D2C architecture in the GT350, GT350R, and GT500, but doing so has been based on adding pieces to enhance the stiffness (thus adding mass) but Alpha has been able to instill the basic competence of the newer architecture at a base level.
 
OP
OP

RedRaptorME

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
291
Reaction score
106
Location
Maine
First Name
Frank
Vehicle(s)
2019 ford raptor. 2019 GT 350 R Black red pinstripe. 1948 Ford 4 door sedan. 1973 stingray corvette.
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #5
Two basic reasons, and I am saying this as a neutral automotive analyst and consultant, not as a Camaro owner.

  1. Mass. The GT500 is several hundred pounds heavier than the ZL1 and ZLE.
  2. Chassis dynamics. The ZL1 (and all 6th gen Camaros) uses the Alpha platform architecture that was developed for Cadillac. The GT500 uses the D2C platform that dates back to the S197 Mustangs. Alpha is more modern, lighter weight, stiffer, and has more modern geometry than D2C.
Ford does an amazing job with the D2C architecture in the GT350, GT350R, and GT500, but doing so has been based on adding pieces to enhance the stiffness (thus adding mass) but Alpha has been able to instill the basic competence of the newer architecture at a base level.
thank you very much. That’s what I was looking for. The camaro is the lighter car and it has better geometry and a better suspension that actually cancels out the HP advantage in the GT 500.
I hate to admit this, because I am not a GM guy at all, but they again stay ahead of ford. Ford missed a golden opportunity with the GT 500.
 


MaskedRacerX

Driver
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Threads
73
Messages
5,680
Reaction score
4,740
Location
Vilano Beach, FL
First Name
DT
Vehicle(s)
'21_JWS4XE / '21_TM3P
ZLE uses DSSV dampers, that while spectacular on track, result in a car that's not nearly as "street friendly" as the GT500 (in either variant). It's about design goals, Ford made the GT500 incredibly competitive on track, __and__ a solid daily driver, the ZLE is all in on the track performance over DD-ability.
 

Wolfe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2018
Threads
21
Messages
179
Reaction score
122
Location
Atlanta
Vehicle(s)
Kona Blue Mustang Ecoboost PP, Nissan GTR
Can I ask what results we’re referring to here?

I could be wrong but the only time I’ve seen where the ZL1 1LE bested it was one where it had a severe tire disadvantage on an overall slower/technical track.
 
OP
OP

RedRaptorME

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
291
Reaction score
106
Location
Maine
First Name
Frank
Vehicle(s)
2019 ford raptor. 2019 GT 350 R Black red pinstripe. 1948 Ford 4 door sedan. 1973 stingray corvette.
Can I ask what results we’re referring to here?

I could be wrong but the only time I’ve seen where the ZL1 1LE bested it was one where it had a severe tire disadvantage on an overall slower/technical track.
Just do some homework. You can either go on google or YouTube. The ZL1 1LE consistently out does the GT 500 CFTP on the track and in straight line races. And you can see the actual lap times. Even the ZL1 is more of a track weapon than the GT 500 CFTP. You can not argue with numbers.
 
OP
OP

RedRaptorME

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
291
Reaction score
106
Location
Maine
First Name
Frank
Vehicle(s)
2019 ford raptor. 2019 GT 350 R Black red pinstripe. 1948 Ford 4 door sedan. 1973 stingray corvette.
ZLE uses DSSV dampers, that while spectacular on track, result in a car that's not nearly as "street friendly" as the GT500 (in either variant). It's about design goals, Ford made the GT500 incredibly competitive on track, __and__ a solid daily driver, the ZLE is all in on the track performance over DD-ability.
Thank You.
 

oregongt350

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Threads
3
Messages
431
Reaction score
263
Location
Oregon
First Name
Michael
Vehicle(s)
2022 GT500 HE, 1967GT Fastback S code,
Just curious if anybody can explain to me why and how a Camaro with approximately 110 HP less and less torque is able to beat a GT 500 CFTP on the track ? Is there something with the suspension or the body geometry of the Camaro that makes it faster on a track ? Something really seems off. The other issue is the GT 500 CFTP costs nearly $ 100,000.00 and the ZL1 1LE can be bought for $ 25,000.00 Less ! Ford had plenty of time to make sure the GT 500 was the better track car and it seems like they missed the boat. It just seems like when GM really sets their mind to it they are always one step ahead of ford.
This is more like it a relevant thread in regards to the GT500. Stangmode rest In peace
 
OP
OP

RedRaptorME

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Threads
29
Messages
291
Reaction score
106
Location
Maine
First Name
Frank
Vehicle(s)
2019 ford raptor. 2019 GT 350 R Black red pinstripe. 1948 Ford 4 door sedan. 1973 stingray corvette.
i've never seen a ZL1 or ZLE pull on a GT500 in straight line. one example...

Just do your homework. First off I am not a GM guy or a Gm fan boy, I am a ford/toyota guy. I really don't care for GM. But you need to take the blue oval glasses off and go research lap times and drag times and you will realize that the Camaro, either the ss Z71 or the ZL1 1LE is superior to the GT 350 R or the GT 500 CFTP. It's REALLY NOT EVEN CLOSE. For the money, the Camaro is a far better buy, and I own a GT 350R.
 

lightrules

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Threads
62
Messages
2,415
Reaction score
2,176
Location
West Coast
Vehicle(s)
Yes
Vehicle Showcase
1
Just do your homework. First off I am not a GM guy or a Gm fan boy, I am a ford/toyota guy. I really don't care for GM. But you need to take the blue oval glasses off and go research lap times and drag times and you will realize that the Camaro, either the ss Zl1 or the ZL1 1LE is superior to the GT 350 R or the GT 500 CFTP. It's REALLY NOT EVEN CLOSE. For the money, the Camaro is a far better buy, and I own a GT 350R.
i dont have blue oval glasses and i dont own a GT500. but i just "did my homework" and publicly posted a video that shows what everyone knows to be true in a straight line: 760HP DCT is gonna walk a 650HP 10 spd auto. did you watch the video? do you know the 1/4 trap speeds of each car? it aint even close, you're right lol.
 

 
51 - American Racing Headers - 1
Top