Going back to an S197 a bad idea?

[BuckeyeBOSS]

I've been considering getting back into an S197 (supercharged) again for a daily. They just look fantastic to me. It's hard to beat a 392 Charger for a daily for comfort and being a little more practical, though.

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[Norm Peterson]

As a person who just upgraded from a HEAVILY modified S197 GT to a 18GT with PP1 and magneride, they are night and day difference cars. Full disclosure, I came from a base 12 GT with full bolt ons to an optioned out 18GT. I wouldn't go back to save my mother's life....(ok maybe I would).

Here's the difference:

1. The 18GT feels like a much more refined version of the 1st gen cars. Mine has MagneRide, so that could be why, but it goes from tame to back end out in a matter of seconds.
2. The S197 is worse in every performance metric than your 18. That's just facts. There's no argument to be had, it's worse.
3. The S197 interior is far cheaper, even in the premium forms, than your 18. It is also less coherent, and shares too many parts/design queues from the 05-09 cars.
4. The IRS is great for drag applications. Are you a dedicated drag racer? If not, you have no reason to want the live axle over the IRS.
5. You will not find many new parts for the S197 platform. The industry has ubiquitously moved on from the S197 and most new/interesting parts are ALL for the S550 cars. They have sold far more S550s than S197s, so I don't see the aftermarket giving the S197 some love anytime soon.

I will say, the 13/14 tail lights are still the best of the entire 56 year production run, but that's not a solid enough reason to switch to an S197 as a daily.

Those would be your reasons/preferences. But . . .

On Item #1, OP is clearly NOT looking for refinement. Looking to get away from it, even, and similar thinking probably applies to Item #3 as well. A lot good can be said about simplicity in a hot rod, sports car, or muscle car.

Item #4, a stick axle isn't as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.

Item #5, There's only so many ways to make most of the commonly used aftermarket swap parts. There's little point in re-inventing the same wheel the same way somebody else did 5 years ago.

As for #2, performance isn't just about the car . . . unless all you care about is bragging rights. The ability to actually extract whatever potential performance any given car has is up to the driver.

It's fine that you prefer the S550. I just don't think that Ablaze is looking for the same things that he has in a car that doesn't seem to excite him the way his previous S197s did.


Norm

 

[TricarboNate]

19 has a better engine, chassis, suspension, interior, looks and performance.

Yeah, absolutely no way....especially with the price they want for those old S197s.

 

[Rinzler]

Those would be your reasons/preferences. But . . .

On Item #1, OP is clearly NOT looking for refinement. Looking to get away from it, even, and similar thinking probably applies to Item #3 as well. A lot good can be said about simplicity in a hot rod, sports car, or muscle car.

Item #4, a stick axle isn't as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.

Item #5, There's only so many ways to make most of the commonly used aftermarket swap parts. There's little point in re-inventing the same wheel the same way somebody else did 5 years ago.

As for #2, performance isn't just about the car . . . unless all you care about is bragging rights. The ability to actually extract whatever potential performance any given car has is up to the driver.

It's fine that you prefer the S550. I just don't think that Ablaze is looking for the same things that he has in a car that doesn't seem to excite him the way his previous S197s did.


Norm

The list didn't contain a single preference, actually. Each point was a factual objective truth you can look up and verify. The first and last paragraphs, however, were absolutely personal experience/preference making generalizations about the situation.

I fixed the post to clarify #4 regarding a solid axle vs IRS. I actually meant to say the live axel being better for drag applications. Also, the rebuttal to points 2 and 5 aren't even real arguments to what I said. Those were actually your preferences/assumptions.

The point I was trying to make is that Memory Bias is a very real thing. Our minds have a way of remembering things MUCH better than they actually were. I think my perspective is particularly unique since I recently upgraded to a S550 and can offer a more "apples to apples" comparison. The man asked if it was a bad idea, meaning you can't speak for his personal taste. If he wanted a S197, I think he wouldn't have bothered asking the entire forum their opinion on it.

 

[Shane361]

14 Shelby would be the only step back in time I would make of recent years.

 

[racingandfishing]

If I was anywhere close to Michigan, I would consider trading my 2015 for this:

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1ZVBP8CU7C5252706

 

[Rinzler]

If I was anywhere close to Michigan, I would consider trading my 2015 for this:

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1ZVBP8CU7C5252706

Beautiful car, but I wouldn't DD that one. That's a Laguna Seca Boss 302. You'd literally be driving thousands of dollars into the ground in future resale.

 

[racingandfishing]

Beautiful car, but I wouldn't DD that one. That's a Laguna Seca Boss 302. You'd literally be driving thousands of dollars into the ground in future resale.

Agreed and would not be a daily - so maybe a little off topic from the OP.

For me, my 2015 has less than 19,000 miles and most of those were put on over a couple of years driving to another city 200 miles away on a weekly basis. The last few years, probably less than 2,000 miles. It is a weekend car these days.

If I were to buy an S197, it would have to be a low mile Laguna Seca or GT500. I still think the looks kill it and are more on par with the Mustangs from the 60's. Though I may be partial as my first car in high school was a '65 289/4speed.

 

[IrishStallion]

I had a loaded 14 GT/CS Mustang a6 auto. It had a cobra jet intake, jlt intake, big mono tb, offroad mid pipe, Lund 100 octane tuned, and bullet mufflers. Would run consistent 12.1’s @ 115 mph (2000-3000 da) on a 245 all season nero tire. lol.

Honestly my 18 GT pp1 a10 will run circles around that 14 with just an E85 tune. The premium seats sucked in the S197 compared to the base cloth in the 18. Handling/braking 18 hands down. But, the S197 looks more like a retro mustang and it took me a while to even like the S550. Downgrade imo in the end.

Only two 11-14 mustangs that would even interest me is a Boss 302 or Saleen Dan Gurney.

 

[noac]

I have had a few Mustangs over the years and the S197 are kind of sweet spot as far as I’m concerned. Some cool retro looks, relatively cheap to buy, good power and lots of aftermarket support. The S550 to buy for a fast raw feeling is a 18+A10 car. I need a manual because I like shifting but a 18+ with a MT82 is just not the right car. Feels like an 82GT with the SROD...just bad ratios. Maybe a 4.09 gear would help. I can tell you what I do know perfects a 18-20 manual GT is a blower. I have the Roush blower on a GT with 3.73’s and it feels awesome. I have owned some great cars and a few that I recommend for a great raw “Mustang” feel would be Boss 302, 85 GT, supercharged 3V, 18-20 GT with A10, 18-20 GT manual with blower, 07-09 GT500 with right clutch, CAI, tune, and 3.73 gears. A 18-20 GT with a manual just feels soft.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The list didn't contain a single preference, actually. Each point was a factual objective truth you can look up and verify. The first and last paragraphs, however, were absolutely personal experience/preference making generalizations about the situation.

Sorry, but refinement - perhaps more accurately, individual appreciation of whatever constitutes refinement - is still a subjective matter. OP basically said as much, having experienced both the S550 and the S197.

I own a 2018 GT. All I've done to it is add a tune and a little suspension work. I have no serious complaints about the car. I think Ford did a great job evolving the Mustang and improving every aspect of it. That said, for me, it's numb. I've had two previous S197 cars (4.6L and 5.8L) and they were both wild and fun to drive. They felt alive

Yes, it's mostly subjective reasoning, because that's really what this thread is about. Subjectives and preferences here matter in much the same way that things like color choice and wheel design do when you're buying a new car.

The way I read it, he's happy enough with the S550 without being excited about it. And there's no objective answer that can sort that out. Not even with objective performance numbers, and OP did hint that the S550 might be a little too refined for him.

I fixed the post to clarify #4 regarding a solid axle vs IRS. I actually meant to say the live axel being better for drag applications.

I knew what you meant. Wasn't going to go any further down that road than I did.

The point I was trying to make is that Memory Bias is a very real thing. Our minds have a way of remembering things MUCH better than they actually were. I think my perspective is particularly unique since I recently upgraded to a S550 and can offer a more "apples to apples" comparison. The man asked if it was a bad idea, meaning you can't speak for his personal taste. If he wanted a S197, I think he wouldn't have bothered asking the entire forum their opinion on it.

I think he still has an S197, so memory bias wouldn't be involved here.

I'm not sure why people ask questions like this on a forum for the car that's potentially being let go in favor of something else. Especially when they provide hints about which way they're already leaning. Maybe he was looking for some magic answer - the right answer for him - that would talk him out of it, at least for now. But the hints he gave seem to be saying that discussing in terms of the same points that Ford would use in their S550 advertising isn't it.

It's not like OP is looking for a 4th gen Camaro here . . .


Norm

 

[IPOGT]

There's a reason for that. Not sure you know exactly what you want. If your looking at a boss302 your going to be spending that much on a car. If your looking for a collector car

Think you need your thinking meat checked. The old 2v and 3v 4.6 cars were pretty tame when it comes to power.l compared to the 5.0's. not sure you really know what it is you want exactly. I recommend doing nothing till you figure it out.

Yes, but they sounded better. The right exaust on a 4.6 is amazing.

 

[rancid]

I miss my 2013 Shelby for how raw it was, but the 2019 is much nicer on longer trips.

 

[K-Roll302]

I'm trying to answer this question for myself. My S550 is my first Mustang and I've had it four years now. Mine is no slouch, but I finally want a V8 in my life. Unfortunately, Covid seems to have screwed up the used car market and the only GT's in my price range within relative driving distance are S197s (11-14).

I've no idea if it's worth "reverting" to a live axle, an objectively worse interior (but not that bad tbh), and less tech (even though I have a base model now) just to have a V8...Or whether or not it's worth trading one corroding hood for another.

 

[IPOGT]

I'm trying to answer this question for myself. My S550 is my first Mustang and I've had it four years now. Mine is no slouch, but I finally want a V8 in my life. Unfortunately, Covid seems to have screwed up the used car market and the only GT's in my price range within relative driving distance are S197s (11-14).

I've no idea if it's worth "reverting" to a live axle, an objectively worse interior (but not that bad tbh), and less tech (even though I have a base model now) just to have a V8...Or whether or not it's worth trading one corroding hood for another.

To give you some perspective, I have a 79 Firebird 400 that I can't seem to want to let go of. That said, I'd take a nice 12-14 GT any day. It's not an S550, but they have the Mustang character in spades and may be preferential in some aspects of driving.

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