Gen4 5.0 intake manifolds not comparable with Gen 1-3

[Racinjason65]

If the Gen 4 in the 2024 Mustang is going to share heads and intake bolt pattern with the current F150 Gen 4 motors, then everyone that’s been talking about wanting a twin throttle body intake on their S550’s can forget about it. While installing a Gen 5 Whipple 3.0 on my 2021 F150, everything was going great until the supercharger got lowered onto the motor and didn’t fit correctly and the passenger side bolt holes on the head weren’t lining up. The problem was that Whipple sent me the wrong supercharger in my kit (this would have fit a 15-17 truck) but side by side with my stock intake manifold, the bolt pattern is different and there is no compatibility between Gen 1~3 and Gen 4.

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[awpe]

I believe it would not be such a problem to build aftermarket ones, I can see that it is hard to install 2 TB with 2 MAFs to <=gen3 engines because ECU expects 1 MAF signal and it is not clear how to solve it with 2 MAFs... BTW is there any demand for those IM? Monitoring this forum I can observe that people either happy with cobra jet or go FI and in both cases I see no trouble living without dual IMs...

 

[Racinjason65]

I believe it would not be such a problem to build aftermarket ones, I can see that it is hard to install 2 TB with 2 MAFs to <=gen3 engines because ECU expects 1 MAF signal and it is not clear how to solve it with 2 MAFs... BTW is there any demand for those IM? Monitoring this forum I can observe that people either happy with cobra jet or go FI and in both cases I see no trouble living without dual IMs...

since the pics of the s650 were revealed I saw a bunch of people that wanted the dual throttle body intake, I thought it was ridiculous myself, but several people wanted to do it.

 

[ice445]

since the pics of the s650 were revealed I saw a bunch of people that wanted the dual throttle body intake, I thought it was ridiculous myself, but several people wanted to do it.

I think it's silly for 20HP anyway, there are other easier ways to get that.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I don't even think a twin TB on any S550 would be possible as the PCM doesn't have the logic for a twin TB AND twin intake tube velocity (more air) at all. It's not something that couid be programmed in via Forscan...

Maybe a Tuner has a way around it?

 

[awpe]

I don't even think a twin TB on any S550 would be possible as the PCM doesn't have the logic for a twin TB AND twin intake tube velocity (more air) at all. It's not something that couid be programmed in via Forscan...

Maybe a Tuner has a way around it?

I see only one way to do it with stock ECU program which expects 1 MAF sensor: rely on mechanical equality of 2 banks of engine, leave one MAF without connection to ECU and recalibrate one MAF for one bank with x2 coefficient so even though MAF report 2V ECU converts it to the same air mass value as if it was 4V with stock calibration. TB-wise power up second TB from other source with same (additional) fuse and send signal in parallel to both.

One will need oscilloscope connected to both MAF sensors to tune TBs for equality in air mass.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Meh. Ill be getting another in 4 ish years, I'll just get the new car. I'm happy with the FP kit on mine now with the Bullit TB.

 

[Racinjason65]

I think it's silly for 20HP anyway, there are other easier ways to get that.

I don’t think the manifold by itself would be worth that much as they said they also revised the cams.

 

[Racinjason65]

I see only one way to do it with stock ECU program which expects 1 MAF sensor: rely on mechanical equality of 2 banks of engine, leave one MAF without connection to ECU and recalibrate one MAF for one bank with x2 coefficient so even though MAF report 2V ECU converts it to the same air mass value as if it was 4V with stock calibration. TB-wise power up second TB from other source with same (additional) fuse and send signal in parallel to both.

One will need oscilloscope connected to both MAF sensors to tune TBs for equality in air mass.

I’ve also heard that the 2024’s don’t use mass air.

 

[Racinjason65]

I don't even think a twin TB on any S550 would be possible as the PCM doesn't have the logic for a twin TB AND twin intake tube velocity (more air) at all. It's not something that couid be programmed in via Forscan...

Maybe a Tuner has a way around it?

Not if the ecm is locked like my gen 4 F150

 

[awpe]

I’ve also heard that the 2024’s don’t use mass air.

Unlikely to be emission standards compliant then.

Not if the ecm is locked like my gen 4 F150

He is talking about s550

P.S. You can clearly see MAFs on photos here
https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/threads/gen-4-coyote-5-0l-v8-specs-photos-s650-mustang.156258/

 

[Racinjason65]

Meh. Ill be getting another in 4 ish years, I'll just get the new car. I'm happy with the FP kit on mine now with the Bullit TB.

If the ecm is locked like the 21 and up F150, my 2020 and my GT350 will be my last modern mustangs

 

[Red65]

I doubt this translates over to the new mustang. AFAIK the F150's heads were redesigned for the cylinder activation, which is probably why it has a slightly different intake manifold bolt pattern. As of right now, there's been no mention of the S650 getting cylinder deactivation and the redesigned cobra jet uses the standard coyote manifold pattern. It wouldn't make any sense to change the pattern for the gen 4 mustang coyote when they are releasing a new cobra jet car that uses the normal pattern.

 

[Racinjason65]

I doubt this translates over to the new mustang. AFAIK the F150's heads were redesigned for the cylinder activation, which is probably why it has a slightly different intake manifold bolt pattern. As of right now, there's been no mention of the S650 getting cylinder deactivation and the redesigned cobra jet uses the standard coyote manifold pattern. It wouldn't make any sense to change the pattern for the gen 4 mustang coyote when they are releasing a new cobra jet car that uses the normal pattern.

So there’s a 5.0 coyote gen 4 already in the trucks, but the mustangs are going to get a 5.0 Coyote also called a gen 4 that uses different heads?

 

[Red65]

So there’s a 5.0 coyote gen 4 already in the trucks, but the mustangs are going to get a 5.0 Coyote also called a gen 4 that uses different heads?

I don't think the Coyote in the F150 is officially being labeled a Gen 4. As far as I can find, the 2021 F150 coyote is a Gen 3 with redesigned heads, and the Gen 4 officially launched with the S650. I think people called the 2021 F150 coyote a “Gen 4” because it’s got a few differences over the Gen 3 in the mustang and it probably makes the owners feel better thinking they got the newest, different stuff.

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