Gen V Whipple Build - Your Feedback Please

[vtknight]

Hello everyone - I am new here as you can see and I have not modded a Mustang in a very long time...I have been reviewing the many Coyote and Whipple threads and they have been very helpful.

My goal is to run a high 9 on pump gas at 140+ and a low to mid 9 on E85 at 150+ which seems reasonable from what I am reading on here. I have a 2019 Mustang GT with the 10R80. It is a base car with PP1. I am changing the 3.55 gear to a 3.15. I should add this is a street car first - 90% of its action will be there. I have read that the converter may be an issue here - and welcome any feedback.

I was hoping some of you very experienced owners would be so kind as to look over what I am building and see if I am missing anything or if you have any suggestions with what I have on the list.

I am likely splitting this build into two stages; stage one is with a stock engine and stage 2 will be with at least a shortblock. I will be running the pump gas and E85/98 setups. Any suggestions on pulley size setups for each is also appreciated.

Stage 1 (pardon the suspension section: I kept detail in to help you see if I am missing anything critical):

Oil pump and crank gearset
Whipple Gen V Stage 2
Fore innovations 2018+ Mustang L2 Fuel System (triple
pump)Ethanol fuels, TI Auto F90000285 , 2 x TI Auto F90000285
FC3 Staged Controller with wiring.
1.875 X 3.0" Long Tube Headers
MBRP Cat back 3" exhaust (came with car)
PNR Mustang Intercooler Tank / Complete Kits for Install
UPR/BMR suspension bits:
Stage 2 Pro-Street Package Billet IRS Braces, IRS
Subframe Bushing Lockout Kit, IRS Alignment Kit, IRS Toe Links
and IRS Vertical Links.- GOT HOOK ™, billet camber arms with
urethane bushings, IRS DIFF LOCKOUT, VIKING CRUSADER,
BILLET SHOCK MOUNTS
BMR SP086 - Lowering Springs, Set Of 4, Drag Version 1
BMR CJR002 - Chassis Jacking Rail, Super Low Profile 1
QA1 Carbon fibre driveshaft
Ford Racing Half Shaft upgrade kit
Circle D 258mm Converter
Mcleod 88098 10R80 Transmission friction plate steel kit
Lund Ngauge (and will be tuned by Lund).

I appreciate everyone's time and responses here - they are very-much appreciated.

Cheers!

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[mtoo22]

Ran a 134 with awful DA and pump gas with just basic IRS support. You'll be able to do that easily.

 

[vtknight]

Ran a 134 with awful DA and pump gas with just basic IRS support. You'll be able to do that easily.

Thank-you for your reply...I have seen pump gas runs wing between mid 130's and 140 MPH with ET from anywhere between mid 10's to 10.0's. I asked HRSEPLA what he was able to do with his pump runs as he did a few (I think 10.2's at 138.5 MPH) and then went straight to E85. I have no issue with running ethanol - and I will have an ethanol setup of course - I just wanted to see what is possible for pump runs.

What psi were you running and do you know what power you were making?

Thanks again!

 

[mtoo22]

10 psi and making around 650-660 at the wheels. Horrible 60ft as I didn't have half shafts yet and was running a Bias Ply ET street R

 

[vtknight]

10 psi and making around 650-660 at the wheels. Horrible 60ft as I didn't have half shafts yet and was running a Bias Ply ET street R

That makes sense - and is actually a pretty good run at that psi and power level. I am hearing 12-13 psi is the limits people are going with pump gas tunes - I don't know if that is the upper limit - or just what people have found to be the "safe" limit. I hear 12 more than 13 - and some people split the difference lol. I think most of the 10.0ish at 138+ MPH runs I have read about are at 12 psi or so.

 

[engineermike]

Brenspeed has a video comparing dyno graphs of a 3.875 (11 psi) to 3.75 (12 psi) on a 2018 and 93 and it actually lost power due to the increase in knock retard.

 

[Jackson1320]

Hello everyone - I am new here as you can see and I have not modded a Mustang in a very long time...I have been reviewing the many Coyote and Whipple threads and they have been very helpful.

My goal is to run a high 9 on pump gas at 140+ and a low to mid 9 on E85 at 150+ which seems reasonable from what I am reading on here. I have a 2019 Mustang GT with the 10R80. It is a base car with PP1. I am changing the 3.55 gear to a 3.15. I should add this is a street car first - 90% of its action will be there. I have read that the converter may be an issue here - and welcome any feedback.

I was hoping some of you very experienced owners would be so kind as to look over what I am building and see if I am missing anything or if you have any suggestions with what I have on the list.

I am likely splitting this build into two stages; stage one is with a stock engine and stage 2 will be with at least a shortblock. I will be running the pump gas and E85/98 setups. Any suggestions on pulley size setups for each is also appreciated.

Stage 1 (pardon the suspension section: I kept detail in to help you see if I am missing anything critical):

Oil pump and crank gearset
Whipple Gen V Stage 2
Fore innovations 2018+ Mustang L2 Fuel System (triple
pump)Ethanol fuels, TI Auto F90000285 , 2 x TI Auto F90000285
FC3 Staged Controller with wiring.
1.875 X 3.0" Long Tube Headers
MBRP Cat back 3" exhaust (came with car)
PNR Mustang Intercooler Tank / Complete Kits for Install
UPR/BMR suspension bits:
Stage 2 Pro-Street Package Billet IRS Braces, IRS
Subframe Bushing Lockout Kit, IRS Alignment Kit, IRS Toe Links
and IRS Vertical Links.- GOT HOOK ™, billet camber arms with
urethane bushings, IRS DIFF LOCKOUT, VIKING CRUSADER,
BILLET SHOCK MOUNTS
BMR SP086 - Lowering Springs, Set Of 4, Drag Version 1
BMR CJR002 - Chassis Jacking Rail, Super Low Profile 1
QA1 Carbon fibre driveshaft
Ford Racing Half Shaft upgrade kit
Circle D 258mm Converter
Mcleod 88098 10R80 Transmission friction plate steel kit
Lund Ngauge (and will be tuned by Lund).

I appreciate everyone's time and responses here - they are very-much appreciated.

Cheers!

I have a 3:15 diff if you want to trade for your 3.55

 

[engineermike]

Ran a 134 with awful DA and pump gas with just basic IRS support. You'll be able to do that easily.

Was it pure 93 or with octane booster?

 

[vtknight]

Brenspeed has a video comparing dyno graphs of a 3.875 (11 psi) to 3.75 (12 psi) on a 2018 and 93 and it actually lost power due to the increase in knock retard.

Were these the pulls when he was on crappy 93? I remember a thread where he was told to get a better fuel (he was at a no name station) and he was good after that. This shows though that you have to be very careful with pump gas as you are hovering by a string with lower octane in terms of knock. Maybe a hit of race fuel to correct a bad batch of fuel just to be safe?

 

[vtknight]

I have a 3:15 diff if you want to trade for your 3.55

Much appreciated - but I already have the 3.15's.

 

[vtknight]

Was it pure 93 or with octane booster?

This will be a useful discussion - just to answer these questions...have people on "pump" been using octane booster or a race fuel mix to avoid knock above 11 psi? Can the setups take true pump gas 93 (or for me 94 as that is what is local) - without constant worry? I both want to see what is possible to run on 93-94 in the 1/4 (MPH more so as ET is mostly traction), how much boost and how safe it is...

 

[engineermike]

Many people who claim to be on pump are actually mixing in some Boostane or the like, so be careful. That stuff is extremely effective and can add 50+ hp if the tune allows it. I’ve been running my stage 2 Whipple on true 93 for 2+ years and 30k miles, but I did drop to the 4” pulley (10 psi) and still only see 12-14 deg spark timing.

 

[vtknight]

Many people who claim to be on pump are actually mixing in some Boostane or the like, so be careful. That stuff is extremely effective and can add 50+ hp if the tune allows it. I’ve been running my stage 2 Whipple on true 93 for 2+ years and 30k miles, but I did drop to the 4” pulley (10 psi) and still only see 12-14 deg spark timing.

Thank-you Mike - this is good info. What power are you making at 10 psi and what are you running (MPH) on 10 psi?

 

[engineermike]

Thank-you Mike - this is good info. What power are you making at 10 psi and what are you running (MPH) on 10 psi?

I don’t know as of now. My goal is to run in the 9’s at 140 at full weight, true 93, emissions legal, in true daily driver trim (no 000 treadwear tires). Weird, I know. I don’t think an out the box Whipple stage 2 on a stock car will make the steam to do that, so I have some other stuff coming like the xdi hpfp and maybe a killer chiller. I do my own tuning as well, which has been a heck of a learning experience. The problem, of course, on true 93 is the 12/1 compression ratio so the name of the game is detonation suppression and finding the right combination of boost, spark timing, cam timing to maximize power under that limitation. And some heat management goes a long way...

 

[vtknight]

I don’t know as of now. My goal is to run in the 9’s at 140 at full weight, true 93, emissions legal, in true daily driver trim (no 000 treadwear tires). Weird, I know. I don’t think an out the box Whipple stage 2 on a stock car will make the steam to do that, so I have some other stuff coming like the xdi hpfp and maybe a killer chiller. I do my own tuning as well, which has been a heck of a learning experience. The problem, of course, on true 93 is the 12/1 compression ratio so the name of the game is detonation suppression and finding the right combination of boost, spark timing, cam timing to maximize power under that limitation. And some heat management goes a long way...

First, I tip my hat to you for doing your own tuning...I see the engineer in your profile name - so I guess you have some experience there. It is not something I will do myself personally - and with Lund having such success and R&D already completed - I am good to feed off of that. That said - what an accomplishment to achieve your 9 at 140+ goal on true 93 on your own...I will follow your progress.

My goals are the same, and I have instituted some of what you mentioned above; the PNR chiller is one and I am going with the pricey triple pump setup - which I am hoping from the full description of what I get with it - will be enough to ensure I get the fuel I need to the engine.

I understand that pump runs are not the cats meow - and everyone just moves on to ethanol. I am a big fan of ethanol believe me - but I want to dial in the pump pulley and tune and see if I can get that high 9 second at 140+ MPH performance - safely - so I can dodder off to the track on a test and tune and hurt some feelings without needing the pulley and tune swap. If not - I will be on the ethanol setup all of the time.

I do think it is possible - I am hoping some of the more well-known and successful setups will chime in here and let us know what their experiences were.

Thanks again for your feedback

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