Gen 4 whipple sneak peak

[Burkey]

IMO it is not as efficient. Whipple not doing as you want them to kinda indicates that as well. Only they have the proprietary data to make the best choice, and if that was to retrofit the gen 5 to the GEN 2 coyote, im sure they would have went that route.

The air flowing through an intercooler, making a U turn and flowing through another intercooler, sounds great for removing heat, not so great for improving airflow. The previous generations have to make an S turn after going through an intercooler, but whipple specifically designed their manifold to optimize air flow through it. so much so that you have to loosen the knock sensors, twist them out of the way, tighten them back down. The Gen 3 coyote DI system prevented this design from working, and modifying the design for clearance reduced the airflow efficiency too much. So they went to the upside down design. They made significant changes to make that design work better than the previous. A 3/4 rotor pack instead of 3/5(better for higher RPM), more of a twist to the helix, new bearings, and gears, larger displacement. All of which can be done to the previous gen superchargers. This is where I believe the gen 3 and 4 are coming from, the discoveries and improvements made getting the GEN 5 to what it needed to be. Whipple has made, tested, and collected the data from both designs. The fact they are sticking to the original, makes me think it is more efficient, or could be made to be so.

My point exactly but much better put together.

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[Notagain]

Holy crap its alot bigger than the gen3 ic. You people need to stop with the assumptions and do some reading on the blower specs.

As I mentioned before whipple not offering the gen5 blower on the gen2s they claimed was a SOFTWARE/TUNING issue not hardware ex. blower physically fitting issue. Clearly it fits and works on older engines people have done it with tunes outside of whipple own calibration.

 

[Burkey]

Holy crap its alot bigger than the gen3 ic. You people need to stop with the assumptions and do some reading on the blower specs.

Improved efficiency of an intercooler doesn’t necessarily correlate to more power.
What I want is empirical data on a dyno that SHOWS that it’s making more power EVERYWHERE, not just from 5k upwards or whatever.
Cooler air is great but not if the flow drops as a result.
Let’s call it a balancing act.

 

[Notagain]

Improved efficiency of an intercooler doesn’t necessarily correlate to more power.
What I want is empirical data on a dyno that SHOWS that it’s making more power EVERYWHERE, not just from 5k upwards or whatever.
Cooler air is great but not if the flow drops as a result.
Let’s call it a balancing act.

Here read for the love of god. You can assume until you are blue in the face or you can read like ive been saying.....

https://www.lethalperformance.com/2018-mustang-gt-whipple-supercharger.html

Upside Down is Way Cooler

Dustin further explained to us that the profile of their new 3/4 rotors “fit perfectly above the DI system and allowed for an even BIGGER intercooler than the last model.” Dustin tells us that “to maximize surface area and cooling efficiency, we felt a dual pass intercooler would be the best. This gives us significantly more surface area and cooling time.” So there’s that, coupled with Whipple stepping up the size of their fittings to a high flow 1” size vs. the previous 3/4” sized fittings, and you’ve got one cool mamma-jamma. The 3.0L’s new shorter stance also allowed for a much larger plenum on the feed side of the supercharger to “help maintain incredibly high volumetric efficiency”. The shorter sizing also allowed for the use of their new, larger 150mm inlet for “massive power potential.”

Cliffs Notes:

- New Gen 5 3/4 rotor design gives more power and will really shine the harder its pushed, giving ample room for growth as power demands increase.
- All-new upside down 3.0L supercharger (Mustang application only)
- Massive dual pass intercooler
- Huge 150mm inlet for massive power potential.
- 2018 Mustang calibration is leaps and bounds ahead of all others, with an all new cal using the DI/PI system, high flow injectors and all new calibration for the 10-speed auto.
- New Whipple Tomahawk flash tool that can read/erase codes, updates online, data logs and gives user customizable options
- F150 will be available in Stage 1 and Stage 2
- Mustang will be available with Stage 1, 2 and 3 plus tuner kit
- F150 is seeing 580 RWTRQ, 650RWHP (10-speed) which comes to 725 ft/lb of torque, 812 horsepower on 93 octane
- Mustang is seeing 580 RWTRQ, 755RWHP (10-speed) which comes to 725 ft/lb of torque, 940 horsepower on 93 octane
- Stage 1 Mustang kit will come with included 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty at 775 engine horsepower.
- Vehicles are going through emission testing right now to get CARB certification.

 

[Notagain]

Not enough? Here let me give you another just incase you want to assume anymore.

https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-storie...gen-5-blower-delivers-big-2018-mustang-gains/

“This new supercharger is far superior to any current setup due to its larger displacement, which outflows other smaller superchargers, lowers temperature due to its internal pressure, and continues efficiency at higher supercharger RPM. The supercharger itself will outflow and outperform the upcoming TVS2650 even before it hits the streets,” he enthused. “The dual-pass intercooler allows for incredible cooling capacity, while the large intercooler fittings don’t cut down flow, again another modification that wouldn’t help as much on the street, but will certainly make a difference at the strip.”

“The new supercharger really starts to shine at higher horsepower, higher airflow demand. The previous generation was very good, unfortunately, we had to do a full redesign as we would’ve had to severely sacrifice on intercooler size. One key component to the package is the intercooler effectiveness. Part of this is the actual size. While size isn’t everything, in this application, it is a huge part of it,” Dustin said “We had the option of lowering the power, as the increased discharge temps would result in much lower power per pound of boost and less tolerance to future builds and low octane such as 91. Or, we could go upside down and cram a massive, efficient intercooler and a new, bigger, and more efficient supercharger.”

SMH that took like 20 seconds of google gen5 whipple blower specs.....

LMGTFY......LOL

 

[Notagain]

Look im not trying to be a dick but assumptions and randoms guesses turn a tech forum into the national enquire of gossip founded on absolutely nothing........

 

[Burkey]

Here read for the love of god. You can assume until you are blue in the face or you can read like ive been saying.....

https://www.lethalperformance.com/2018-mustang-gt-whipple-supercharger.html

Upside Down is Way Cooler

Dustin further explained to us that the profile of their new 3/4 rotors “fit perfectly above the DI system and allowed for an even BIGGER intercooler than the last model.” Dustin tells us that “to maximize surface area and cooling efficiency, we felt a dual pass intercooler would be the best. This gives us significantly more surface area and cooling time.” So there’s that, coupled with Whipple stepping up the size of their fittings to a high flow 1” size vs. the previous 3/4” sized fittings, and you’ve got one cool mamma-jamma. The 3.0L’s new shorter stance also allowed for a much larger plenum on the feed side of the supercharger to “help maintain incredibly high volumetric efficiency”. The shorter sizing also allowed for the use of their new, larger 150mm inlet for “massive power potential.”

Cliffs Notes:

- New Gen 5 3/4 rotor design gives more power and will really shine the harder its pushed, giving ample room for growth as power demands increase.
- All-new upside down 3.0L supercharger (Mustang application only)
- Massive dual pass intercooler
- Huge 150mm inlet for massive power potential.
- 2018 Mustang calibration is leaps and bounds ahead of all others, with an all new cal using the DI/PI system, high flow injectors and all new calibration for the 10-speed auto.
- New Whipple Tomahawk flash tool that can read/erase codes, updates online, data logs and gives user customizable options
- F150 will be available in Stage 1 and Stage 2
- Mustang will be available with Stage 1, 2 and 3 plus tuner kit
- F150 is seeing 580 RWTRQ, 650RWHP (10-speed) which comes to 725 ft/lb of torque, 812 horsepower on 93 octane
- Mustang is seeing 580 RWTRQ, 755RWHP (10-speed) which comes to 725 ft/lb of torque, 940 horsepower on 93 octane
- Stage 1 Mustang kit will come with included 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty at 775 engine horsepower.
- Vehicles are going through emission testing right now to get CARB certification.

You know how marketing works right?
I’m beginnng to see why the Vendors get frustrated with you...
Until Whipple (or preferably a third party) produce an ACTUAL dyno sheet, showing the ENTIRE rpm range for the swap from Gen 3 to Gen 4 and then do the same for a GEN5/6 on an ACTUAL 15-17 car, it’s largely useless.
If I read the “specs/claims” for the Edelbrock/VMP/insert just about anything, I can easily convince myself that any of them are “the best”.
In the meantime, Whipple themselves admitted that the earlier rotor pack count was better for bottom-end.
Why you’d want a PD SC that delivers like a Centri is beyond me.
But I guess as long as it’s “efficient” that’s all that matters....

 

[markmurfie]

Go ahead and assume that I haven't already read all that. I'm actually making a decision on the way things are using logic bad based actions and not what is spoon feed to me, in an attempt to make me purchase something a year ago.

Even dyno results won't settle this. The gen 3 coyote has a full point in compression on the gen 2. If you are not aware of the advantage in efficiency that is, think of it like 4psi of more boost. The only reason the gen 3 isn't making 75-100hp more than the gen 2 coyote is octane. Look what happens when you run them on E85.

The only thing to settle this would be whipple releasing the efficiency maps of each blower, gotten from flow bench testing. And I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[Notagain]

Yes I get marketing but since you were apparently unwilling to go look I "let me google that for you".

2nd. 3rd party results are indeed out there and actually some on this very forum if youd actually go looking for them. I mean if that doesnt require too much time or too much work.....

 

[Notagain]

Go ahead and assume that I haven't already read all that. I'm actually making a decision on the way things are using logic bad based actions and not what is spoon feed to me, in an attempt to make me purchase something a year ago.

Even dyno results won't settle this. The gen 3 coyote has a full point in compression on the gen 2. If you are not aware of the advantage in efficiency that is, think of it like 4psi of more boost. The only reason the gen 3 isn't making 75-100hp more than the gen 2 coyote is octane. Look what happens when you run them on E85.

The only thing to settle this would be whipple releasing the efficiency maps of each blower, gotten from flow bench testing. And I doubt that will ever happen.

huh? you cant compare compression to boost psi LOL!!

yes I know well what the engine differences are between the gen2 and gen3 coyote engines are ive owned both.

I will agree with you on the compressor map info.

Same reason why it drives me absolutely bonkers when vendors say "custom spec cams" without releasing the specs.

Same goes for ported heads.

 

[Burkey]

Yes I get marketing but since you were apparently unwilling to go look I "let me google that for you".

2nd. 3rd party results are indeed out there and actually some on this very forum if youd actually go looking for them. I mean if that doesnt require too much time or too much work.....

If you think for one second that I haven’t scoured nearly every known resource looking for direct back to back comparisons that show the ENTIRE rev range on a boost for boost basis, you are VERY wrong.
Hell, I’ve even seen one chart where the GEN 3 was even worse off the bottom end than the GEN 2...
Plenty of people will gladly spit the peak HP figure however.
This does NOT interest me. It tells me zero about how the car actually drives erry day of the week. All it tells me is what it “should” trap on the 1/4.

 

[Notagain]

Bottom end doesnt matter nearly as much as peak performance at the top of the rev range running WOT at full tilt

If you are concerned about everyday driveability find a better tuner!!

How can you say well down low it might be worse but I really care about driveability?

Driveability is HUGELY dependent on the tuning and way less on how badass the blower is.

 

[Burkey]

Bottom end doesnt matter nearly as much as peak performance at the top of the rev range running WOT at full tilt

If you are concerned about everyday driveability find a better tuner!!

How can you say well down low it might be worse but I really care about driveability?

Driveability is HUGELY dependent on the tuning and way less on how badass the blower is.

By “everyday driving” I mean the capacity of the blower to generate gob loads of torque without having to rev the guts out of it, not how smoothly it drives.
Been in a car packing an M90 or M122 blower have you?
Pick a gear. Nearly any gear. Mash the throttle. Wheelspin. Instant.
Yes, it’s less efficient. It’s a hell of a lot more fun though.
It’s also infinitely more usable on a DAILY basis. Tyres don’t last long of course but nor should they if you’re doing it right.

 

[Notagain]

By “everyday driving” I mean the capacity of the blower to generate gob loads of torque without having to rev the guts out of it, not how smoothly it drives.
Been in a car packing an M90 or M122 blower have you?
Pick a gear. Nearly any gear. Mash the throttle. Wheelspin. Instant.
Yes, it’s less efficient. It’s a hell of a lot more fun though.
It’s also infinitely more usable on a DAILY basis. Tyres don’t last long of course but nor should they if you’re doing it right.

LOL yes ive had multiple cammed e85 M90 gm 3800 v6s

330whp and 400wtq is a blast in a small fwd coupe. However the damn transmissions are glass.

Now if thats what you are.looking for Id suggest a big ol kenne bell blower.

Im praying myself they have the 2018+ 3.2 blower package out come summer.

Its in development/prototype now.

If you want more TQ downlow than what ANY blower option on a little 5.0 can give you Id suggest a diesel truck or maybe a Camaro but it wont be as fast. LOL.

People compmaining having to rev them makes zero sense to me. Blowing the tires off doesnt win races. Were are to the point pretty much any FI 5.0 is traction limited anyways.

Lastly have you drove an A10 gen3 5.0?

So many gears and they make more TQ its night and wlday difference than a 6 speed backed gen2 engine.

gen3 more tq and the A10 has more gears to pick from finding tq in the rpm range isnt a problem.

My stock 2018 is a riot compared to even my 2016 that had a CJ mani on it amd tuned on E85 that did 8k rpm shifts.

The A10 hype is real that things the business!

 

[Burkey]

LOL yes ive had multiple cammed e85 M90 gm 3800 v6s

330whp and 400wtq is a blast in a small fwd coupe. However the damn transmissions are glass.

Now if thats what you are.looking for Id suggest a big ol kenne bell blower.

Im praying myself they have the 2018+ 3.2 blower package out come summer.

Its in development/prototype now.

I’m thinking bout a 2650 TVS to be completely honest...
More data required.
M122 on a 5.7 Chev (can we mention Chev here?) is hilarious fun.

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