GEN 4 5.0L COYOTE DARK HORSE LONG BLOCK

[engineermike]

And another plot twist…the AEM yt video shows the 2024 block part number as being a JR3Z part number which means carry over from gen3. But parts.ford.com is now showing the 2024 mustang block part number as Pxxx which means it’s been updated, complete with ~8 lb more heft. My guess is they are physically interchangeable (unlike the f150) and they wanted to deplete some old gen3 stock in the early 24’s.

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[80FoxCoupe]

The deck in the gen 4 (truck block) is more of a closed deck type. But really only useful for going high hp, not something the majority require. The con rods are a major upgrade for the majority though.

That gen 4 truck engine is going to take a lot of punishment with a supercharger, no oil pump issues from crank flex, less blowby/head gasket issues and predator rods.

That's not what I was asking.

 

[robvas]

Do the truck blocks have anything related to cylinder deactivation?

 

[EFI]

but a limiting component once FI.

I would say pistons (specifically the ringlands) are the weakest link when moderately boosted.

When you're pushing 7-800rwhp the ringlands on 7 & 8 are your biggest issue not the rods. People push them to upwards of 1000rwhp without much issues out of the rods, but plenty of people have busted pistons by then.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

Do the truck blocks have anything related to cylinder deactivation?

I'm sure they do. Oil passages likely designed with that in mind. As you know the VDE system is largely in the cylinder heads and valvetrain, which is completely different vs mustang.

 

[Desert Dog]

Here is the response I received from Ford Performance On swapping in the Gen 4 Dark Horse Engine into a Gen 3 18-23 Mustang. What was interesting to me is there is a Boss on the GEN 4 Head, you should be able to drill and tap to run your current Headers.

Transfer all the parts from your 18 engine.
Also any parts that are different such as coolant tubes and injector harnesses and oil filter adapter.
If your engine failured and had debris on the tops of any pistons you have to install a new intake.
Broken parts can be kicked back into the intake and sucked in to the replacement engine.
Custom calibration required.
Now for the bad news.
You LH hand exhaust does not have the correct pattern for the 24 cylinder head.

18-23 LH
24 LH same as 18 GT350

Talking to engineering the cylinder heads have the bosses for 18-23 pattern but they are not drilled and tapped.

 

[K4fxd]

Never mind

 

[80FoxCoupe]

@Forestlump the 24 dark horse block in the aed video has an open deck. It's clearly same as 18-23 mustang / 18-20 f150.

 

[Forestlump]

@Forestlump the 24 dark horse block in the aed video has an open deck. It's clearly same as 18-23 mustang / 18-20 f150.

Yes, I suspect it has. It's like gen 3.5

 

[HKusp]

How many rod failures have you seen or heard of on a Gen3? I agree that the ringland is much more of an issue on the Gen3 in stock form than the rods. There are guys pushing some pretty good numbers with stock bottom end cars and trucks.

 

[engineermike]

How many rod failures have you seen or heard of on a Gen3?

So pistons < rod. Where does opg fall out on this list (gen3)?

I agree btw, with my entire dataset coming from posts on this forum.

 

[Jasonb543]

So pistons < rod. Where does opg fall out on this list (gen3)?

OPG = snake oil.

 

[K4fxd]

Where does opg fall out on this list (gen3)?

Simply from my experience with Twin cam Harley's I think most of the oil pump gear failures are from improper installation. The wear I see on aftermarket coyote oil pump gears look a lot like TC failures.

I forget the exact amount of crank runout HD said was Ok but it was somewhere close to .010. When we installed the oil pump we had to be careful to let it find it's own center. Alignment pins didn't always work.

As far as 2 steps breaking stock coyote gears I can see this as a problem also

 

[horsepower addiction]

they tear the whole thing down. It looks like a predator block with a smaller bore. I think you could use the short block in a gen 2/3. Rods look like standard Coyote rods maybe they’re different but they look the same. If you remove the oil pump belt pulley a mustang pump would probably bolt on

 

[80FoxCoupe]

they tear the whole thing down. It looks like a predator block with a smaller bore. I think you could use the short block in a gen 2/3. Rods look like standard Coyote rods maybe they’re different but they look the same. If you remove the oil pump belt pulley a mustang pump would probably bolt on

Several things to note that would inhibit the use of a 21up f150 short block from being used in a mustang. Likely that oil passages in block deck would need modification as the truck engine has VDE. Casted in bosses on the oil pan rail that mounts the oil pump would need milled off. That's assuming the pan bolt pattern is retained. Crank snout is different as mustang style oil pump drive does not exist.

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