Gen 2 5.2L - Does it push more HP? Truth or rumor?

[GT30fan]

I'm always amazed after so many other postings everywhere of all the documented Gen 2 changes, that statements are made there isn't really such a thing as a gen 2 simply because they made various tweaks and changes to the prior motor(s). I think Ford even called it "Job 2" internally. When spending at least 50K or more on a car, I assure you I spent endless hours researching, calling, etc before I pulled the trigger on the extra cash on a newer, and therefore Gen2 version GT350. I wanted to pay a lot less and get an older one....and I wanted a discontinued color badly...but I just...couldn't. I even talked to shops that do boost that took both apart. And yes, there was a different R version motor, up until Gen 2 when they they all were made alike. I am sure I am going to get all kinds of response why people feel it isn't the case (oddly from pre 19 owners? let's see) but I am not going to respond to that, as there are all kinds of theads on this already, including this site. I will say this, when I went to the GT350 track attack, the older avalanche gray I had felt like it pulled a little harder than mine, but the way those cars are hit hard, I wouldn't be shocked if they are on a 4th engine by the time its been out there 4 or more years....but if it was a "gen 1", it was strong. And I am by no means trying to say Gen 1 isn't awesome, or I would not buy one at the right deal....I would. But I know Gen 2 is not a fairy tale by new owners wanting to feel better

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[Schwerin]

n.

So, will a late Voodoo make more power than an earlier one? Maybe, if the calibration enables it, but keep in mind that Ford had no incentive to make it more powerful. The specs are the same from start to finish, so expect the output to be pretty much unchanged.

To be fair Ford also had no incentive for giving the performance package SHO better/stronger pistons, but they did anyway.

 

[Frank.Herbst]

Read the sticky on 19 changes. There are a number of engine changes for 19. I understand this can be looked at different ways. But I have had a 17 and now have a 19. The 19 is noticably quicker, it is documented, and with tire and other changes we don't know what part the engine plays. I also noticed better low end power in the 19, especially noticable in 5th and 6th. Although I very seldom use 6th.

 

[svttim]

The changes to the 19/20 are well documented and confirmed. The power is another thing. I feel my 19 is a bit more responsive than my 16 was but I am comparing a base to an R and we know the R was always faster. My gut feeling is lots of improvements but no difference in power

 

[Frank.Herbst]

The changes to the 19/20 are well documented and confirmed. The power is another thing. I feel my 19 is a bit more responsive than my 16 was but I am comparing a base to an R and we know the R was always faster. My gut feeling is lots of improvements but no difference in power

Yep, improvements.

 

[lenFeb]

Read the sticky on 19 changes. There are a number of engine changes for 19. I understand this can be looked at different ways. But I have had a 17 and now have a 19. The 19 is noticably quicker, it is documented, and with tire and other changes we don't know what part the engine plays. I also noticed better low end power in the 19, especially noticable in 5th and 6th. Although I very seldom use 6th.

Glad that I noticed difference between MY16-18 and MY19-20 confirmed by the other owners of GT350.

 

[460Fred]

I have a ‘19 with 5500 miles.
Did Track Attack last Tuesday in a ‘16. I noticed a difference especially down low. My ‘19 seems way quicker.
That said, the ‘16 had 13.5K on the odometer so maybe that’s the difference, I don’t know.
Maybe it was staying in 3rd instead of dropping into 2nd on the exits that made that big difference.

 

[JR369]

Glad that I noticed difference between MY16-18 and MY19-20 confirmed by the other owners of GT350.

16-18 regular 350 had some slight differences in the motor along with suspension differences too than the 16-18 R's. And all the 19-20 350's have an R motor now and are closer to an R suspension. The 17 350 I drove around at Miller felt a bit sluggish compared to my 18 R to be honest.

 

[Angrey]

This shit is all self serving placebo.

Unless Ford changed air, spark, fuel or displacement (or greatly reduced some parasitic loss) there's no output difference from a 2015 motor compared to a 2020. Sorry to burst bubbles. Ford made changes that affect reliability and most of the changes were simply streamlining production with other platforms (aka the 500).

Now, if someone can verity Ford changed tune (obviously they didn't change displacement), by adding more timing or leaning it out, that's another matter, but I have yet to see any discussion of this, let alone that it's verified. Combine that with the fact that Ford tests each of the motors to ensure they're within output tolerance before they go in the car and what you have is a bunch of people convinced of internet rumors. It's the same shit I see with "flat plane cranks don't like boost" etc. Just because a bunch of people WANT something to be true or it seems believable doesn't make it so.

As far as trapping goes, yes, that's what's LONG been an argument from the 350 to the R crowd all along. There's an artificial gearing change when running the smaller radius Cup 2 tires (not to mention a slight reduction in rotational intertia). MOST of the sauce with the R compared to the regular models is in the Cup2 tires. Not all, but most.

I'd bet a month of my salary that if you line up 2 GT350's one with the Cup2's on the rear and one with the MPSS/4S, you'll see slightly higher traps from the 315/30 than the 305/35's.

Where would you experience the difference, you guessed it, in the lower power band where the car is a dog and a bit more gear is helpful.

 

[Frank.Herbst]

This shit is all self serving placebo.

Unless Ford changed air, spark, fuel or displacement (or greatly reduced some parasitic loss) there's no output difference from a 2015 motor compared to a 2020. Sorry to burst bubbles. Ford made changes that affect reliability and most of the changes were simply streamlining production with other platforms (aka the 500).

Now, if someone can verity Ford changed tune (obviously they didn't change displacement), by adding more timing or leaning it out, that's another matter, but I have yet to see any discussion of this, let alone that it's verified. Combine that with the fact that Ford tests each of the motors to ensure they're within output tolerance before they go in the car and what you have is a bunch of people convinced of internet rumors. It's the same shit I see with "flat plane cranks don't like boost" etc. Just because a bunch of people WANT something to be true or it seems believable doesn't make it so.

As far as trapping goes, yes, that's what's LONG been an argument from the 350 to the R crowd all along. There's an artificial gearing change when running the smaller radius Cup 2 tires (not to mention a slight reduction in rotational intertia). MOST of the sauce with the R compared to the regular models is in the Cup2 tires. Not all, but most.

I'd bet a month of my salary that if you line up 2 GT350's one with the Cup2's on the rear and one with the MPSS/4S, you'll see slightly higher traps from the 315/30 than the 305/35's.

Where would you experience the difference, you guessed it, in the lower power band where the car is a dog and a bit more gear is helpful.

If you are not new to Ford and performance cars you know they like to either produce limited years, think BOSS cars or make improvements, think last two years of the previous GT500 and now the latest GT350. The guys that buy first do get to enjoy right away. And it's not just performance cars. Watch what happens to the guys buying the Mach E. We will see big improvement in just a couple model years. Like I said in my 19 there are driving power changes I like, and it's quite a bit faster. Everything else is splitting hairs.

 

[Angrey]

If you are not new to Ford and performance cars you know they like to either produce limited years, think BOSS cars or make improvements, think last two years of the previous GT500 and now the latest GT350. The guys that buy first do get to enjoy right away. And it's not just performance cars. Watch what happens to the guys buying the Mach E. We will see big improvement in just a couple model years. Like I said in my 19 there are driving power changes I like, and it's quite a bit faster. Everything else is splitting hairs.

Prove it. Show some sort of data. Otherwise, it's just placebo. And as I said, I doubt Ford would be spitting out motors from the factory that fall outside their power confidence interval without changing the rating.

Slapping on Cup2's WILL give the perception that the car is stronger, but it's just a bit of gearing help (where it really needs it).

It's honestly no skin off my nuts. My car is so far departed from it's original form, I could care less. I just find the interweb full of people that WANT to believe stuff, when in fact it's just rose coloring.

I'm not even saying the later model years aren't preferable. The 500 radiator support, the swing is better, the block is "better" (although without a blower, there's no benefit to it), and some slight suspension tweaks. But the idea the motor is stronger is just fanciful. It's the same cubes, same spark, same fuel, same air.

 

[Frank.Herbst]

Prove it. Show some sort of data. Otherwise, it's just placebo. And as I said, I doubt Ford would be spitting out motors from the factory that fall outside their power confidence interval without changing the rating.

Slapping on Cup2's WILL give the perception that the car is stronger, but it's just a bit of gearing help (where it really needs it).

It's honestly no skin off my nuts. My car is so far departed from it's original form, I could care less. I just find the interweb full of people that WANT to believe stuff, when in fact it's just rose coloring.

I'm not even saying the later model years aren't preferable. The 500 radiator support, the swing is better, the block is "better" (although without a blower, there's no benefit to it), and some slight suspension tweaks. But the idea the motor is stronger is just fanciful. It's the same cubes, same spark, same fuel, same air.

Have you ever race a series where everyone tries to win by out spending? I have and was a track champion on a budget. You have to learn to feel what's going on to do that with out a dyno. And unless you or I are taking our Shelbys out and doing real racing, you are correct, the differences between any of the new Shelbys including the Rs is just water cooler talk.
Have a good one.

 

[svttim]

Prove it. Show some sort of data. Otherwise, it's just placebo. And as I said, I doubt Ford would be spitting out motors from the factory that fall outside their power confidence interval without changing the rating.

Slapping on Cup2's WILL give the perception that the car is stronger, but it's just a bit of gearing help (where it really needs it).

It's honestly no skin off my nuts. My car is so far departed from it's original form, I could care less. I just find the interweb full of people that WANT to believe stuff, when in fact it's just rose coloring.

I'm not even saying the later model years aren't preferable. The 500 radiator support, the swing is better, the block is "better" (although without a blower, there's no benefit to it), and some slight suspension tweaks. But the idea the motor is stronger is just fanciful. It's the same cubes, same spark, same fuel, same air.

While I tend to agree with you your perception is no better than those who claim more power. I agree, prove it. Lets get two stock base 350s and put them on a dyno all in 1 day under the same conditions. But your statement "slight suspension tweaks" has been proven wrong unless you think 2 seconds faster a lap at VIR slight. Combination of the R grill, tires suspension and brake tuning make the 19/20 faster then previous years but still not up to the R. All of that is well documented. Once you modify the car, there is no need to further discuss. You can spend money to make anything faster. Fact is many are not capable up to the same level as a stock GT350 of any year.

 

[Lurker_350]

16-18 regular 350 had some slight differences in the motor along with suspension differences too than the 16-18 R's. And all the 19-20 350's have an R motor now and are closer to an R suspension. The 17 350 I drove around at Miller felt a bit sluggish compared to my 18 R to be honest.

I could be wrong, but maybe that is elevation? Miller is at 4k ft vs almost sea level in my case. I remember in my dumber days messing with a 997 Carrera S (NA) in my slightly tuned WRX (turbo) near Taos, NM. He was way down on power at >6k ft, but mine still felt pretty stout.

 

[JR369]

I could be wrong, but maybe that is elevation? Miller is at 4k ft vs almost sea level in my case. I remember in my dumber days messing with a 997 Carrera S (NA) in my slightly tuned WRX (turbo) near Taos, NM. He was way down on power at >6k ft, but mine still felt pretty stout.

That's a valid thought.

Also, hasn't FatFab "proven" on their dyno that there's really not a difference in HP & TQ?

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