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Gas particulate filter on new 18-19 GT?

drewzh

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Is anyone aware of a new GPF (gas particulate filter) being added to the 18-19 mustangs? This is currently a point of concern with trying to get my GT tuned from the states as their firmware's don't contain GPF logic and my tuner is stating that I'd need to get this system removed to proceed.

However, everything that I find online points to the UK GT *not* having a GPF and this being on the ecoboost model only.

For e.g, see: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/frankfurt-motor-show/new-ford-mustang-arrives-europe-next-year

Does anyone have any insight into this? I plan to jack the car up on the weekend and verify from under the car, but based on photos I took a few months back, I don't see anything other than the usual catalytic converter.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Dov9jRZu9b5PjthD9

Hopefully, it's a non-issue and I can proceed with the tune from the states.
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Yes the UK/European 2018+ Mustang GT does have a GPF (but I don't think US cars have one) - and this is the reason for delays with calibration upgrades.

In our case as Roush Master Dealer, we do not have a supercharger calibration available for 18-19 cars for this reason.
 

v8hgt

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Wow didn’t realise they had a gpf on the new ones. That rules out headers I guess in Europe.
The gpf could be built into the cat on the engine side.
 
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drewzh

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Thanks Scott, I was just logging on to update my post to say that I've also confirmed via the tuner that my 2018 GT does indeed have a GPF, which is essentially part of the catalytic converter section of the exhaust. Picture attached to show new line entering the filter which doesn't exist on the US model.

Can anyone explain what this line does? I know GPF's don't work the same as a DPF do... I wonder if this is a direct air feed to initiate GPF regeneration (oxygen + high heat)?
IMG_20180609_164353 (2).jpg
 
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djone101

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That's a good picture - I believe that the pipework runs up to sensors - which I presume are measuring pressure - there's no oxygen source that I'm aware of.

There's no reason you couldn't fit headers to an 18MY but you would need a mechanism to deal with the inevitable check engine light that a lack of GPF would produce.
 

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drewzh

drewzh

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That's a good picture - I believe that the pipework runs up to sensors - which I presume are measuring pressure - there's no oxygen source that I'm aware of.

There's no reason you couldn't fit headers to an 18MY but you would need a mechanism to deal with the inevitable check engine light that a lack of GPF would produce.
Do you happen to know where these sensors exist, or where the pipework leads to? How did you come to this conclusion? I plan to have a nosey this weekend.

From what I understand, the GPF is passive vs active (i.e, it's not actively heated and uses excess oxygen in the exhaust gases to burn off the particulates). As a petrol/gas engine won't get enough oxygen in the exhaust gases in normal acceleration/highway driving (due to stoichiometric burn of the A/F mixture), somehow the filter needs to be fed with oxygen to initiate regeneration. From various articles that I've read, it's likely that this is fed under deceleration and/or using engine management to produce a lean burn when cruising. That's why I assumed it could be some sort of direct air feed to initiate regeneration.

I believe with tuning, you can removing the CEL produced by removing the GPF. For e.g, the US based tunes don't even contain the logic/modules to deal with the GPF so will essentially ignore it.
 

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Do you happen to know where these sensors exist, or where the pipework leads to? How did you come to this conclusion?
We've had one on a ramp and there are sensors mounted off the chassis rails that these lines run to. They are only two wire sensors I think - hence we're assuming that it's a simple pressure make/break switch. I assume the remote mounting is to help the sensors survive the temperatures.

On the tuning front - yes the US calibration will ignore this part of the strategy, however the European calibration is different in lots of other ways too so I'm not sure how much you can effectively cut and paste and everything else still works.
 
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drewzh

drewzh

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We've had one on a ramp and there are sensors mounted off the chassis rails that these lines run to. They are only two wire sensors I think - hence we're assuming that it's a simple pressure make/break switch. I assume the remote mounting is to help the sensors survive the temperatures.

On the tuning front - yes the US calibration will ignore this part of the strategy, however the European calibration is different in lots of other ways too so I'm not sure how much you can effectively cut and paste and everything else still works.
Thanks for confirming that Scott,

So it's likely the oxygen is introduced using engine management and that extra line is to monitor the condition of the exhaust flow. Seems odd to me that the sensor wouldn't be a variable pressure sensor to monitor the condition of the filter. I'm assuming if it's a simple OFF/ON then it's to monitor when conditions are right for regeneration? Or maybe it's to monitor when/if the GPF is clogged?
 

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The problem is not the mapping out. That’s the easy bit as the US tunes will easily map this out. The problem is the legislation. Cars produced with gpf must retain them in the eu. It’s a bit like cats. But for cats we have an easy (if pricy) solution. We just fit headers with aftermarket cats which are easily available as many US states have similar legislation. Headers with cats and gpf don’t exist yet, and there is little incentive for the aftermarket to make any as they would only sell in small numbers in Europe for high prices. Until the US adopts the same legislation, fitting headers to my18’s will render them unable to pass a mot.
 
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We are working on a gpf delete. We got everything working. Just need to test it under all conditions so soon you can put headers on your 2018 without dtc or the car going inte limp home
 

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Just to update you on this - we have now finished the first UK/European installation of a Whipple supercharger kit on a 2018MY car with Whipple providing everything including the calibration. It retains the standard headers with GPF and works very well.

The increased back pressure in the system does seem to affect the power output but only by around 7% and torque is about 5% lower than a 2017 installation. The car we've finished is a 10 speed auto so it's difficult to compare how it drives directly with a 2015-17 car but our assessment is that the driveability and overall power delivery is more refined than the earlier car - maybe a touch less dramatic but at 600hp it still has plenty more power than you can safely use in the UK at this time of the year. The standard Michelin tyres certainly help with the feeling of confidence.

The 2018+ supercharger kit is quite different to the 2015-17 kit with the screws located in the V of the engine and the heat exchangers on the top. The 2018 engine has less space in the V due to the additional knock sensors (4 instead of 2) and the direct injection fuel system takes up space too hence the redesign. It is engineered to fit RHD and LHD so we no longer need to trim the K brace is needed.

Let me know if anyone needs any more information on this.
 

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Just to update you on this - we have now finished the first UK/European installation of a Whipple supercharger kit on a 2018MY car with Whipple providing everything including the calibration. It retains the standard headers with GPF and works very well.

The increased back pressure in the system does seem to affect the power output but only by around 7% and torque is about 5% lower than a 2017 installation. The car we've finished is a 10 speed auto so it's difficult to compare how it drives directly with a 2015-17 car but our assessment is that the driveability and overall power delivery is more refined than the earlier car - maybe a touch less dramatic but at 600hp it still has plenty more power than you can safely use in the UK at this time of the year. The standard Michelin tyres certainly help with the feeling of confidence.

The 2018+ supercharger kit is quite different to the 2015-17 kit with the screws located in the V of the engine and the heat exchangers on the top. The 2018 engine has less space in the V due to the additional knock sensors (4 instead of 2) and the direct injection fuel system takes up space too hence the redesign. It is engineered to fit RHD and LHD so we no longer need to trim the K brace is needed.

Let me know if anyone needs any more information on this.
Out of interest what sort of costs are we looking at to fit one on a MY19 ?
 

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Out of interest what sort of costs are we looking at to fit one on a MY19 ?
The Stage 1 kit is ÂŁ8995 including VAT and fitting - Stage 2 is ÂŁ900 more. Takes about three days to install - lead time on kits from Whipple is around 3 to 4 weeks as they're built to order.
 

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i'm assuming the new kits would also fit the 15-17 too just need a different calibration?
 
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drewzh

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The Stage 1 kit is ÂŁ8995 including VAT and fitting - Stage 2 is ÂŁ900 more. Takes about three days to install - lead time on kits from Whipple is around 3 to 4 weeks as they're built to order.
I'm extremely glad there's progress being made. I would love to see the build. Is it a customers car or your own project? I'm currently scared to even tune now with the whole ticking thing (I have it on my 18). My plan was to tune and add supporting mods over the next 1.5 years and then install a Procharger or Whipple (haven't decided on pd/c type). It may be that I say 'sod it's and get the engine built. I hear those that have on the 18 no longer get any ticking anyway. For now I'm jus going to sit tight and see how things go. In the meantime I'm just going to install suspension, exhaust and minor mods that don't effect the powertrain.
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