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FYI: Coyote 5.0 Plasma Transfer Wire Arc cylinder liners

Jetnoise

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......can't help but wonder if the dealer would be willing to scope the cylinders under warranty, just to keep a record.
The equipment to do so isn't very expensive for a DIY'r
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Dfeeds

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That is true. Now, if anyone does have any concerns over cold viscosity starting, then just run a really good synthetic that has good pour characteristics in


If that was true, and it may be an indicator...then all these engines have a serious problem. Meaning even brand new ones on the lot are damaged even before purchase. I personally don't think I will ever run 5w20 in my engine again. That said, when the piston slap noise subsided towards the end of the OCI, and I switched to PUP 5w30, the tick cam eback even more noticeable than before. My guess is the carbon buildup in the 5w20 over time was dampening the noise. Once that bottle of Ceratec went in, the tick just slowly went away, and it's as quiet as a mouse now.

I haven't found any appreciable amounts of metal in the filter or oil, but can't help but wonder if the dealer would be willing to scope the cylinders under warranty, just to keep a record.
Not necessarily. Consider diluting from DI and LSPI, high volatility of new oils, the lower NOACK of moto 5w20, and it's average to below average shear strength, and you have an oil that just doesn't seem to hold up. I'm also referring strictly to the coyote, not the triton. There was a guy not too long ago going on about this, too. He sounded arrogant, but he made a point. I'd be curious to see how these engines would fair if they got a new, dexos1 gen2 (or sn+ for ford I guess) approved oil at 5w30 from the factory. Instead they're turning off the DI injectors at idle, adding knock sensors, throwing on a 10 qt sump, and running weird timing at low rpms so they can keep running their shitty 5w20. Okay, maybe not "shitty," but not able to hold up to a 12:1 compression, DI engine that revs above 7000 rpms. I can just imagine a tech sitting there thinking "if they just let us spec different oil..." while listening to some pig rig, with his or her infinite wisdom, demanding they fix the issue another way. Meanwhile, they leverage out the cost savings of CAFE to what they lose in replacing 5% of the engines under warranty.

Once my long block is put in, and I get the car home, I'm dumping the 5w20 and putting in a dexos1 gen2 approved full synthetic 5w30. Maybe it will do nothing, but it definitely won't hurt. I remember that Mustang UOA chart that was floating around for the gen 1s by some amsoil sponsor. If you ignored the advertising, you'd see that motorcraft 5w20 had a gross amount of copper in the oil samples as opposed to even other 5w20s, and this is before DI dilution.

EDIT: "big rig" not "pig rig," but I like pig rig so I'm keeping it above.
 

CB18

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Because Ford has a problem and they will do anything to invalidate a warranty. If they ask for service records and receipts, you need 5w-20 on that receipt. Just my thoughts. By Ford doing away with the proven cylinder liners for this plasma arc business and using us consumers as test hogs could damn sure turn into another fiasco like the 6.0 PowerStroke boner.
 

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CB18

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We're all test hogs at times. All kinds of under tested products shoved into market.
 

BmacIL

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From the current 2019 warranty booklet, page 13:
Capture.JPG
"Racing track use" is not the same as "Racing, Track use". It is a subtle but important distinction.
 

BmacIL

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We're all test hogs at times. All kinds of under tested products shoved into market.
That's pretty ignorant to say, but if it makes you feel better, ok. Most issues that OEMs have related to recalls and TSBs are not designs that haven't completed proper validation tests, but rather parts with supplier quality problems. The modern automobile is by far the most complex product that consumers can buy, and it's often not appreciated as such. There are methods for which to ensure better launch quality, and the Japanese are typically excellent at this. Ford has some bright spots and some not so bright.
 

Zooks527

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"Racing track use" is not the same as "Racing, Track use". It is a subtle but important distinction.
You do realize that you're not the one to make that distinction if the dealer / Ford want to deny the warranty claim, right? They won't care to discuss subtlety at all. If they decide to deny the claim, they'll tell you that the "competition" condition covers participating in races and "racing track use" means just what it says - using it on a "racing track" whether it's in competition or not. You've got nowhere to go after that. Sure, "I'll sue" is the emotional reaction, but from a realistic standpoint, the cost of a lawyer and the time to actually do so is prohibitive.
 
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GT Pony

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I'd be curious to see how these engines would fair if they got a new, dexos1 gen2 (or sn+ for ford I guess) approved oil at 5w30 from the factory. Instead they're turning off the DI injectors at idle, adding knock sensors, throwing on a 10 qt sump, and running weird timing at low rpms so they can keep running their shitty 5w20.

Once my long block is put in, and I get the car home, I'm dumping the 5w20 and putting in a dexos1 gen2 approved full synthetic 5w30.
FYI, Motorcraft oil is now rated SN+, so Ford must be addressing LSPI for their DI engines.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/product.asp?product=SAE 5W-20 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil&category=Motor Oil

Last oil change I went with Valvoline Advanced 5W-30, which is dexos1 Gen2 SN+. Even though my 2015 doesn't tick, the Valvoline seemed to make the engine sound quieter, especially on the top end (valve train) compared to the Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend I was using.
 

GT Pony

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Weren’t the “test hogs” technically the 2013 gt500 owners?
The spray liners were all done in Germany is what I read ... so maybe the quality of the process was much better in the GT500s.
 

BmacIL

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You do realize that you're not the one to make that distinction if the dealer / Ford want to deny the warranty claim, right? They won't care to discuss subtlety at all. If they decide to deny the claim, they'll tell you that the "competition" condition covers participating in races and "racing track use" means just what it says - using it on a "racing track" whether it's in competition or not. You've got nowhere to go after that. Sure, "I'll sue" is the emotional reaction, but from a realistic standpoint, the cost of a lawyer and the time to actually do so is prohibitive.
GT350 owners went through this exact same thing. Track use does not violate the warranty, but racing does.
 

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Mr. Bmac, not been ignorant at all with forum members and it doesn't make me feel good. You cannot possibly tell me that you never had a product that you thought was not tested enough. And I apologize to you and others that got hurt feelings with the 'test hogs' comment. I thought it was better than guinea pig.
 

Dfeeds

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FYI, Motorcraft oil is now rated SN+, so Ford must be addressing LSPI for their DI engines.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/product.asp?product=SAE 5W-20 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil&category=Motor Oil

Last oil change I went with Valvoline Advanced 5W-30, which is dexos1 Gen2 SN+. Even though my 2015 doesn't tick, the Valvoline seemed to make the engine sound quieter, especially on the top end (valve train) compared to the Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend I was using.
I wonder what production date the sn+ started, then. I'm curious if the jug I snagged at walmart, 2 months back, is the sn+ certified. I'd assume and hope the dealerships have a fresh supply. Regardless, the dexos gen2 certification is more strict, from what I've read, so aiming for that is better than sn+ and bonus if it's both. I was looking to initially get pennzoil but after some reading I may go with valvoline as well. I'm just concerned if there's any truth to synthetic causing piston rings to not properly seat. While the original factory engine may have had a break in/dyno run, I have no idea if Ford tests their short/long blocks. A lot of this is new to me, and while I love learning, I don't like learning about things like engine break in that have completely opposing viewpoints with sound arguments on both sides.

I just want to dump the 5w20 right away because my old engine had the bad sound at 250 miles, but I keep pondering if I'll be better off keeping it in for a few hundred miles. Doing so either leaves me at risk to the same problem, or the two are completely unrelated. Assuming good sensors, I just don't see how the cam journals and camshafts could get so banged up without an oil issue being present; unless things were just that far out of spec. I suppose oil passages could have gotten plugged by the metal particulate, but the metal found was basically dust, and I wasn't experiencing any abnormal spikes in oil pressure.
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