Fueling limits of gen 3 Coyote?

[CXRs]

The problem is, you're looking for data that doesn't really exist. Not many people (or tuners for that matter) will really do what you're asking for there to be data readily available. That's why you're having trouble getting the info and there's a reason why FI kits come with fueling upgrades in the injector department. If you wanted this data from tuners, you should call up Lund or PBD and ask them directly.

And you're just assuming that people who responded have not done any FI setups, and we all know what they say about people that assume.

I'm not calling a tuning shop to ask for information if I am not paying them for their services, and why should they be obligated to help me with an engine swap I'm doing in my own garage? You seem to have taken offense to something that I've said, and I apologize if I've offended you in any way. I was specifically looking for hard data, and it seems like you're trying to say that it doesn't exist because you don't personally have it.

As for my "assumption" that nobody in this thread has done an FI build before, I'm not assuming that at all. I'm assuming that nobody that's responded has tuned their own, because the fueling tables would have all of that information very easily calculable by just reading injector duty and seeing what power is being made at the wheels. Just because you may have paid someone to install a supercharger kit on your car doesn't make you an expert on all things FI, just like the builds I've done don't make me an expert on any of the cars I've worked on. Now if you want to keep the pissing match to a minimum, I would really appreciate the thread not getting cluttered up any more.

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[givemeadollar]

My mind isn't made up at all, otherwise I wouldn't be asking on here. I guess I did leave some vagueness in the original post by not specifically asking people who have not installed any kind of boost to refrain from replying. It kind of sucks coming to a forum looking for data and specifications and getting opinions instead, it makes it really difficult to plan out a build.

If you want to do stupid shit like running a stock fuel system on a FI e85 setup, nut up and shut up. tune and build your own car. Otherwise do it right and quit bitching and moaning. It's not rocket science bigger injectors and a return style fuel system...

 

[K4fxd]

@engineermike Has done a lot of playing with a supercharged 3rd gen. He might be able to answer what the HP limit of the stock injectors are.

Personally I wouldn't use anything smaller than the stock GT500's

 

[EFI]

Just because you may have paid someone to install a supercharger kit on your car doesn't make you an expert on all things FI, just like the builds I've done don't make me an expert on any of the cars I've worked on. Now if you want to keep the pissing match to a minimum, I would really appreciate the thread not getting cluttered up any more.

I personally installed and tuned both my own setups (N/A CJ E85) and now a twin screw E85. I'm telling you this data doesn't exist because people already are close to maxing out stock injectors N/A with E85, so noone is dumb enough to try that on any sort of boost.

If the tuners won't give you that information (1 because they are not in the business to help non paying customers and 2 because most won't even tune such a setup) then you basically have to rely on enthusiast information on the forums. And so far, you've been given that information. If you don't like it, that's another story. So yes, gonna end it here and not turn it into a pissing match any further. But I will subscribe to the thread for the inevitable post of "why do I have a hole in my #8??"

 

[jwt]

I'm not sure what the objection is to upgrading the stock injectors is. If you are asking can you bolt on FI and use stock injectors , well yes you can but it's a risky move. How risky? No one knows for sure, your engine will be different, your fuel will be different, your assumptions on PSI will be to a tolerance, too many variables. Hence the recommendations from one and all to upgrade the injectors. You are in there anyway, its a trivial upgrade and if money is an objection many have sourced second hand parts with good success.

And when, not if, you decide you want more oomph, the already upgraded injectors will make that an easy thing to do.

 

[WildHorse]

Hey all, I'm looking at a donor engine from a 2018+ GT, and can't find much in the way of specs on fuel injector sizes, or examples of owners that have maxxed out their factory fuel system. I plan on using a turbo setup instead of a supercharger, and targeting about 700whp. Does this sound doable with a turbo and E85, or would I have to upgrade the injectors at that point? Thank you for any insight.

The bad: stock 18+ injectors are much smaller than the 15-17 injectors. Something around 29#. The good: you have 16 of them. The bad: you don't always run all 16 at the same time. Get yourself some DW95. ID 1050X or FIC 1000 injectors and call it a day.

 

[Twisted_SPJ]

From my experience you will max out the stock fueling system around the 500 wheel mark N/a on e85. The most power made n/a on 93 is closer to the 440-460 mark depending on dyno. Thats really due to the amount of timing the tuner can safely throw at it without it knocking or pre-detonation. You could make 700ish with a supercharger on 93 with a BAP and a dw400 pump in tank with 1050x injectors.

The sloppy mechanic way may be to uncap the stock injectors to let them flow more but that is usually risky and not advised.


What you are asking for is not possible. There is a reason that supercharger kits come with 1050x or similar injectors....

 

[LSchicago]

You're gonna be holding on for a while then. And sounds like you already have your mind made up on which direction you want to go based on the few people you've seen/talked to that have done so already.

So let us know how it works out.

Not many here willing to gamble their engine trying to save money on injectors. I know I'm not a gambler, so I paid my money for twin 525's & FIC1000's. Still an affordable way way to fuel 1,100+RWHP, and I don't expect to go over 900 or so RW.

 

[CXRs]

I'm not sure what the objection is to upgrading the stock injectors is. If you are asking can you bolt on FI and use stock injectors , well yes you can but it's a risky move. How risky? No one knows for sure, your engine will be different, your fuel will be different, your assumptions on PSI will be to a tolerance, too many variables. Hence the recommendations from one and all to upgrade the injectors. You are in there anyway, its a trivial upgrade and if money is an objection many have sourced second hand parts with good success.

And when, not if, you decide you want more oomph, the already upgraded injectors will make that an easy thing to do.

My concern with upgrading the stock injectors isn't one of cost but function. I'm trying to keep the proper spray pattern, as I'll be using a custom intake with relocated injectors, and a critical part of the plan is proper atomization. Going bigger is going to make it a good deal harder to accomplish that, so my curiosity was based on how much I can get off boost with the DI, and how much more I can supplement with stock injectors for when I reach a certain boost/load target. After getting my hands on a control pack and doing bit of digging, it seems like I can get away with LU47 injectors by changing the blending ratio on E85 vs 93.

As for turning the power up, that's not in the cards. Right now as it sits, the host is about 2600lbs, and even if the engine and trans comes in at 800 I can't imagine I'll even be able to use much more power.

From my experience you will max out the stock fueling system around the 500 wheel mark N/a on e85. The most power made n/a on 93 is closer to the 440-460 mark depending on dyno. Thats really due to the amount of timing the tuner can safely throw at it without it knocking or pre-detonation.

Thank you very much. It seems like the DI injectors are able to supply the equivalent of ~12lbs in that case. I've done a good deal of research over the weekend looking at stock fuel maps and it seems like that lines up with what I've found.

 

[K4fxd]

I would use the stock 2020 GT500 injectors. They are 65 lbs at 4 bar. Will be bigger than the LU47 and still have the proper dual spray pattern.

These

https://www.steeda.com/ford-performance-m-9593-m55gt-mustang-55lb-fuel-injector-set

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