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Fuel pump noob question single pump Walbro/TI no venturi outlet

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josephstef

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What is your complete setup, what rpm are you going to spin it to and what fuel will be used?
ESS Centri, have crank sprocket and OPG installed, JMS Bap. Was hoping to get close to 800whp on pump.
Looks like it maybe on the edge of the dw400 at WOT where the 535 may cope.
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ESS Centri, have crank sprocket and OPG installed, JMS Bap. Was hoping to get close to 800whp on pump.
Looks like it maybe on the edge of the dw400 at WOT where the 535 may cope.
You want 800 rwhp on 93 octane?
 

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98 Octane, in New Zealand
With proper calibration and of pi/di split and assuming no cat overtemp on a gen 3 car with 1000cc injectors with a dw400 at 18 volts it will flow enough to support 800 rwhp on gasoline. The low side pressure will drop some but it will still maintain commanded a/f ratios. I believe your 98 octane is simular to our 93 octane, if that is the case I would not push over 720 rwhp on that grade fuel. I would also not run it at 21.5 volts with the jms.
 
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That's a solid explanation thanks for that. So out of curiosity, on a DW400 rated for 400LPH would the venturi model actually be giving you around 360LPH as the venturi/siphon barb is using some of that flow off the 400? Like below
Untitled-5.jpg

First, the entire industry kinda fudges numbers. They almost all report flow at 3 bar or around 43 psi.

It's understandable that they have to pick a flow pressure to all be consistent, but it's way too much for carb N/A applications and not even enough for most tuners on FI N/A.

If you look at the pump curve and the power curve, what you'll need for full send is markedly different than what the pump puts out at 3 bar.

It'll draw more amps of current and it'll flow less.

To answer your question, yes, running a siphon branch reduces what the overall flow of the pump can meet even further.

I've searched the ends of the interweb and no one really has any quantified data, the only even mention of it is from Radium who quotes about 40 lph.

So if your pump is rated at XXX lph (at 3 bar) then yes, running a syphon will reduce that to XXX-YY (YY being whatever the siphon line flows).

For instance, your F295, at 12V and 70 psi (say base pressure + 15 lbs of additional to compensate for boost), it flows barely 105 gallons/hour. (397 l/h). Estimate about 40 liter/hour loss from the siphon and now you're at about 350 l/h at your design/full load needs. It's a little better for 13.5v (about 120 gallon/minute raw pump at 70 psi), but also draws a couple more amps (17 instead of 15).

No one really cares about amps until they're running triple pump systems constantly and having battery and capacitance issues with their electrical system and heating the shit out of the fuel.

Of course you generally have to add a couple of psi of pressure loss due to fluid friction and components (lines, fittings, filters, etc) so it's probably a little less than that.
 

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ESS Centri, have crank sprocket and OPG installed, JMS Bap. Was hoping to get close to 800whp on pump.
Looks like it maybe on the edge of the dw400 at WOT where the 535 may cope.
Why spend all that money for power then risk blowing up your most expensive piece with no redundancy or proper fuel check. Spend the 1500-2k and protect a 20k rebuild, at the very least go with a road heavers setup if you just can't seem to come up with the extra money.
 
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This is really good info, thanks everyone! Hopefully it can help others in the future.
Just as an FYI had a chat to DW and they said that the siphon on the top of the DW400 looses about 10% Flow.

Im going to keep the 535 and find a tee with a 1/8" outlet and see how it goes.
 

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This is really good info, thanks everyone! Hopefully it can help others in the future.
Just as an FYI had a chat to DW and they said that the siphon on the top of the DW400 looses about 10% Flow.

Im going to keep the 535 and find a tee with a 1/8" outlet and see how it goes.
The hellcat pump draws more amps then the dw400 so it will run hotter as well creating more issues, with the bap ramping up the pump it will push against the standard preset regulator bypass creating a higher then stock psi then it will be chocked again by the plastic 90* outlet on the factory pump hat. There is a reason why the dw400 pump only flows marginally more then the stock pump does when it's installed in the stock basket, it's not the flow rating of the pump at all it's the rest of the setup. This is not speculation I've already tested it multiple times and with multiple pumps. Just trying to help you understand that something is only as good as its weakest link. You can have 3 of those pumps but running through the factory basket will greatly hurt their performance. Either way on straight gasoline you'll be ok flow wise. I hope this helps you understand and it works out for you.
 

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The hellcat pump draws more amps then the dw400 so it will run hotter as well creating more issues, with the bap ramping up the pump it will push against the standard preset regulator bypass creating a higher then stock psi then it will be chocked again by the plastic 90* outlet on the factory pump hat. There is a reason why the dw400 pump only flows marginally more then the stock pump does when it's installed in the stock basket, it's not the flow rating of the pump at all it's the rest of the setup. This is not speculation I've already tested it multiple times and with multiple pumps. Just trying to help you understand that something is only as good as its weakest link. You can have 3 of those pumps but running through the factory basket will greatly hurt their performance. Either way on straight gasoline you'll be ok flow wise. I hope this helps you understand and it works out for you.
Hey thanks for the info! The 535 draws less amps than the dw400 and hellcat, so shouldn't be a big issue on that side. Understand the hat limitation but and if it becomes an issue will probably change to a return set up with larger lines.
 

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Hey thanks for the info! The 535 draws less amps than the dw400 and hellcat, so shouldn't be a big issue on that side. Understand the hat limitation but and if it becomes an issue will probably change to a return set up with larger lines.

The 535 is the same pump as the 525 hellcat pump it just does not have a check valve as you know. At only 13.5 volts and 50 psi the 535 draws 19.8 amps the dw400 draws 16.9 at the same voltage and psi, as you increase the voltage and psi they obviously will draw exponentially more amps. With the bap set at 18 or more volts the pump will push the regulator past the factory preset up to around 75 psi to give you an idea.
 
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The 535 is the same pump as the 525 hellcat pump it just does not have a check valve as you know. At only 13.5 volts and 50 psi the 535 draws 19.8 amps the dw400 draws 16.9 at the same voltage and psi, as you increase the voltage and psi they obviously will draw exponentially more amps. With the bap set at 18 or more volts the pump will push the regulator past the factory preset up to around 75 psi to give you an idea.
Thats not correct for the 535, many people think its just no check valve. The actual internals are different there's a bit of info out there The form factor is the same.
https://www.spoolstreet.com/threads/ti-automotive-walbro-274-vs-285-vs-295.5882/

you can see it draws much less than the br540/dw400
 

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Thats not correct for the 535, many people think its just no check valve. The actual internals are different there's a bit of info out there The form factor is the same.
https://www.spoolstreet.com/threads/ti-automotive-walbro-274-vs-285-vs-295.5882/

you can see it draws much less than the br540/dw400
I've read in multiple places it's the same pump and I confirmed that with walbro about 1 year ago. Idk if anything has changed since then. Walbro has printed its amp draw and it's considerable also it says in that link you posted very simular amp draw to what I posted, also the dw400 was not tested there the br540 draws more then the 400 it's not just a rebadged 540 I believe the 400s siphon jet changes its characteristics.

I have tested both those pumps in the past a few times and the 525/535 drew more amps then the dw400.
 
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Thats not correct for the 535, many people think its just no check valve. The actual internals are different there's a bit of info out there The form factor is the same.
https://www.spoolstreet.com/threads/ti-automotive-walbro-274-vs-285-vs-295.5882/

you can see it draws much less than the br540/dw400
The 267 is the low pressure version of their 500 lph series of pumps. The 274 is the high pressure (valve) version of the 267. The 285 is the high amp version of the 274 and the 295 is the no check valve version of the 285. They're all the same case size.

I can't remember whether the 285 or the 295 is used in the hellcat, but that's why it's referred to as the hellcat pump.
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