FS or budget STP

[MustangSC]

Hey, everybody. Need some advice.

I recently got a 2017 GT non-PP. I had been running locally in a 2007 GT in FS. The only mods done to that car were a Strano rear sway and Koni yellows.

As a lot of people have mentioned this car seems pretty floaty. And by that I mean really floaty.

So here is my dilemma.

Do I just throw some koni's on it and run in FS and call it a day? New sway also and stay in FS? Or do I add a little bit more and move to STP?

Some background for your responses. I only do about 12 events a year. Don't really want to do more and going to nationals is basically impossible. I'm finding that I don't really like how the car feels at this point in terms of handling but it also has to be a daily driver year round in Indiana. I noticed that Ford performance makes a track package that is within budget (about $1200 for the suspension stuff) I would then need to add wheels and RE-71R's. I'm also not a do it yourself guy.

I'm not particularly worried about PAX. My guess is that will change at some point anyway.

Thoughts?

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[JmalB]

I'm in a similar position with my car. My thought is, if you already have the koni yellows, add some springs from BMR or Steeda and just run the RE-71s or similar tire until you feel like being more committed to funneling money into it.

It will be a cheap STP/CAM-C setup for just going out and having fun and improving as a driver.

edit: Add the BMR cradle lock out kit (CB005 I think) while you're at it.

 

[mbeale68]

I'm in a similar position with my car. My thought is, if you already have the koni yellows, add some springs from BMR or Steeda and just run the RE-71s or similar tire until you feel like being more committed to funneling money into it.

It will be a cheap STP/CAM-C setup for just going out and having fun and improving as a driver.

edit: Add the BMR cradle lock out kit (CB005 I think) while you're at it.

That's something I've been wondering about...is the BMR cradle lock out kit legal for STP?

 

[JmalB]

That's a good question. I don't know. Paging [MENTION=16275]SteveW[/MENTION]!

 

[NightmareMoon]

honestly I'd go wherever there is the most competition locally. It sucks to be in a class by yourself. Konis and a little swaybar should tighten up the car nicely for the street if you do go FS.

If you're getting a second set of wheels, do you want to run pretty aftermarket wheels on the street and race on your stock rims w/ RE71Rs (FS) or keep your stock wheels for the street and race on wide aftermarket wheels (STP).

 

[DickR]

After two autocross seasons driving to/from the big SCCA Pro Solo's etc. in the midwest in my FS GT PP with Koni's and RE-71R's I would not want anything stiffer for a mostly daily driver. However, I'm not exactly young anymore (retired). I think the combination of Koni's, Strano rear bar, and RE-71R's will be a pleasant surprise and will allow you to focus on seeing how many "better" prepared cars you can beat.

 

[Static_LV]

I'm a bit younger than DickR (not remotely retired yet) and I have been running FS with a 2016 GT PP this year and just got some Koni's for the last autocross. Eventually I will be picking up some wheels and tires as I am on stock rubber.

This setup works just fine for driving around and I am happy with the way it performs for autocross. Could it be better? Sure, but I am on a budget and I am pretty happy with FS classing. Now if I could just get more people to consistently show up in that class that would be great.

 

[Ugly John]

I'm a bit younger than DickR (not remotely retired yet) and I have been running FS with a 2016 GT PP this year and just got some Koni's for the last autocross. Eventually I will be picking up some wheels and tires as I am on stock rubber.

This setup works just fine for driving around and I am happy with the way it performs for autocross. Could it be better? Sure, but I am on a budget and I am pretty happy with FS classing. Now if I could just get more people to consistently show up in that class that would be great.

How much of a difference did just adding the Koni's make?

 

[DickR]

How much of a difference did just adding the Koni's make?

Big difference. The car is much better controlled for autocross and normal driving without stiffening the ride. The rear bar is only useful for tuning at the limit handling. Sticky tires are for at the limit grip and response.

 

[SteveW]

I'm in a similar position with my car. My thought is, if you already have the koni yellows, add some springs from BMR or Steeda and just run the RE-71s or similar tire until you feel like being more committed to funneling money into it.

It will be a cheap STP/CAM-C setup for just going out and having fun and improving as a driver.

edit: Add the BMR cradle lock out kit (CB005 I think) while you're at it.

That's something I've been wondering about...is the BMR cradle lock out kit legal for STP?

That's a good question. I don't know. Paging [MENTION=16275]SteveW[/MENTION]!

I don't see how it would be legal. It adds metal inserts to the factory bushings and that puts it at odds with 14.8.K in my view. Even the Delrin (BK048) or Poly kits (BK047) may have issues if they don't allow the subframe to bolt up to the body the same way as the factory bushings.

14.8.K. Subframe mount bushings may be replaced, but must attach in the standard location(s) without additional modification or changes. Subframe position may not be changed. The amount of metal in a replacement bushing may not be increased relative to the amount of metal found in a standard bushing for the particular application. Solid metal bushings are specifically prohibited.

As for FS vs. STP I would say if you had a PP car and were on a budget then FS makes sense. Without a PP car you can put together an STP setup that makes your car much more fun and competitive locally for not much more money than you would spend in FS. A non-PP Mustang would be at a big disadvantage against other FS cars.

1. Wheels and tires - cost basically the same between FS and STP but a non-PP car won't be stuck on narrower wheels in STP like they would in FS

2. Shocks - you can use the same shocks in either class.

3. Springs - obviously wouldn't be buying springs for FS so this is an additional cost but springs that fit OEM spring perches aren't a huge expense

4. Swaybars - ok, so you could buy both a front and rear bar for STP instead of just one bar for FS

5. Alignment - STP allows for cheap camber bolts up front or you could spring for camber plates that work with OEM type springs or both.

6. additional things like adding lightness, etc but this gets more into serious prep.

My suspension consists of a Roush V3 kit, swaybars and an alignment. The ride is better than stock (at least what I remember of it) and my gf and I just drove the thing from Oregon to Nebraska and back. We had a nice time riding in the car for a whole week. It is still a great street car.

Hope this helps :ford:

 

[MustangSC]

Thanks for the replies! Being a non-PP car is a big part of the issue. As far as competition goes it is hit or miss either way. I was pretty much the only FS car for 3 seasons. It's a small region. We do have some guys running CAM when they don't need to be. I might try to get them to move to STP.

I think I'll be ok with the stiffness involved with STP. So does anybody have thoughts about the Ford Performance track pack? I understand that is stiffer than the PP but I would guess not be as good as some other options. Maybe a nice compromise for a daily driver? It is just at a pretty good price point for me.

 

[Static_LV]

Big difference. The car is much better controlled for autocross and normal driving without stiffening the ride. The rear bar is only useful for tuning at the limit handling. Sticky tires are for at the limit grip and response.

It made a big difference. The GT PP was already pretty decent in steady state cornering but suffered in rapid transitions. Moving to the Koni's helped a LOT with that. Good enough for my first #1 place PAX and a #7 overall.

Street drivability is not adversely impacted in this setup.

 

[EricSMG]

Big difference. The car is much better controlled for autocross and normal driving without stiffening the ride. The rear bar is only useful for tuning at the limit handling. Sticky tires are for at the limit grip and response.

It made a big difference. The GT PP was already pretty decent in steady state cornering but suffered in rapid transitions. Moving to the Koni's helped a LOT with that. Good enough for my first #1 place PAX and a #7 overall.

Street drivability is not adversely impacted in this setup.

I, too, find the stock PP setup quite floaty - particularly the front. The struts have very weak low speed rebound. I've zero doubt that simply bolting in Konis will make a HUGE difference in overall chassis control.

However - you both say that street compliant isn't adversely affected. I desperately want to believe that but am finding it hard too. I find the stock PP setup to be as firm as I'd like on the compression side - any firmer would make the car a chore on the street.

Are you both really saying that Konis + stock PP springs offers the same basic overall level of comfort as the stock PP setup whilst having a much more "sports car-like" feel? Or is it the typical Koni experience where, at first, the car "feels" so much better that you overlook the degradation in everyday compliance but after some time you start to realize how crude they've made the car on anything but the smoothest roads?

Looking for brutal honesty here

 

[DickR]

Per Koni they can provide better control without hurting ride compliance simply because their price allows more expensive internal components than the very low cost parts in the oem units. As a result low and higher shaft velocities for both compression and rebound can be tailored significantly more than can be done with the oem units. From what people with the very high cost units such as JRI, etc. say those shocks are even more capable than Konis in regard to separating ride compliance from body motion control and tuning capability.

That said I think the only way to decide is to find someone who has Konis and has the same tires you have and compare. Tires such as Bridgestone RE-71R's are noticeably more harsh than the oem PP tires.

 

[MustangSC]

So any thoughts on the FP track pack? And are all of you STP guys wearing MRR M350 wheels?

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