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Manders Mustang

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You can only compare with EB's though. As a V8 for obvious reason is NA and more cylinders blah blah.

For example, your car will run much less spark advance due to be FI, if it was running over 30 degrees it would probably POP. :D
I run 1 step colder iridium spark plugs too ;)! So probably not even fair to compare most of the stuff.. but ill post it anyway.
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Gibbo205

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APOLOGIES

Kens config files don't measure maf flow, so are useless.

I've just made a generic config file for the Coyote including maf flow rate, knock and spark, please use the file attached in this reply. :)
 

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Gibbo205

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I run 1 step colder iridium spark plugs too ;)! So probably not even fair to compare most of the stuff.. but ill post it anyway.
They will have zero impact on the readings, they are a cooler plug due to being FI, they are just to prevent spark blow out or missfire.

Something the V8 guys only do when adding an SC/Turbo
 

Manders Mustang

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They will have zero impact on the readings, they are a cooler plug due to being FI, they are just to prevent spark blow out or missfire.

Something the V8 guys only do when adding an SC/Turbo
Sorry yea, thought you meant something else :lol::lol:! I meant they're not stock, so it's logging a mod really, but, we'll see tonight won't we when I run the logs.

I'll even whack top boost in as well.

I'm currently setting up my intercooler buy and I should be pushing hooge torque. :first:
 
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Gibbo205

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OK I don't have the video skills of Enoch or Bill from CJ's but here is the video:

[ame]


Before this will work you do need to transfer the logging config file to your SCT using Livelink II, instructions online on how to do that.

I leave mine monitoring knock, spark and maf rate typically. But you can change display modes and pick what you want. The windscreen mount was like ÂŁ5 from Amazon.

If it was not for this I'd never have known about my knock issues, except for car feeling slow when accelerating hard through gears, hence why I did the setup to monitor and try to discover exactly what causes it.

If you set this up and start seeing positive knock at partial throttle do not worry all these cars register positive knock, its perfectly normal and generally only happens when cold at partial throttle, once things warm up it should pretty much always be 0.00 or negative, but anything upto +1 will do no harm. Above this is a concern if it refuses to go back down to zero, you either have false knock or a real issue, though false knock is still very bad as it means the car loses performance.

Based on what I've seen:
- Ford stock map: Very rare it see's positive knock, but will cold, spark at WOT will build to 23-25 degrees by redline. At partial throttle you see upto 55 degrees. Knock sensor will report negative numbers a lot down to -10.00 due to base timing being very low.
- SCT/JDM/DS: Might see positive knock a touch more, due to higher baseline timing and aggressive spark at low RPM, should see 27-29 degrees at low RPM falling to 25-27 degrees by redline. Negative timing a rarer site and generally only upto -4.00 due to quite aggressive base timing at low RPM.
- Custom (AED, LUND etc): Should rarely if ever see positive knock and upto -6.00 negative quite often due to them using less base timing (lund particular) but then building to 28-29 degrees by redline, higher on some cars due to fuel. Lund also leave fuel adaption fully enabled so if you throw in race gas, you might see upto 32 degrees and it coming in much sooner stronger, aka like E85.


Sorry if the video makes no sense, did my best, plenty of guides online and the SCT/iMap mounts nicely in windscreen and is very handy tool.
 

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Manders Mustang

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(haven't watched video) but, question for the guys here, EBM engines seem to register a lot of psotive knock (Generally up to +8.00) but when gapped with [MENTION=19118]Tune+[/MENTION] plugs rarely do we see any Negative knock. How come V8s have a lot of negative but no/less positive?

FWIW when I say negative knock, Cobb is reporting it as a -x.xx and positive as a x.xx (without the negative)

usually expect to see cores 1/2/3/4 running 0.00/8.00 or -1/3.xx/8.00. Might be me reading it wrong or getting mixed up with terminologies. I'll whack these on the gauges as I can get 6up with the air flow stuff to let you know how much my car 'sucks' in ;P
 
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Gibbo205

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(haven't watched video) but, question for the guys here, EBM engines seem to register a lot of psotive knock (Generally up to +8.00) but when gapped with [MENTION=19118]Tune+[/MENTION] plugs rarely do we see any Negative knock. How come V8s have a lot of negative but no/less positive?

FWIW when I say negative knock, Cobb is reporting it as a -x.xx and positive as a x.xx (without the negative)

usually expect to see cores 1/2/3/4 running 0.00/8.00 or -1/3.xx/8.00. Might be me reading it wrong or getting mixed up with terminologies. I'll whack these on the gauges as I can get 6up with the air flow stuff to let you know how much my car 'sucks' in ;P
-8.00 means the ECU/Tune has adding 8 degrees spark from the timing tables available to it within the map. THIS IS VERY GOOD AND NORMAL. V8 stock map goes to -10.00, most tuners set this between -4.00 and upto -10.00

+8.00 is very very bad, that is a lot of knock, if its real knock at those levels would be audible particular with listening equipment, this means the ECU/Tune has deducted 8 degrees timing from the map for safety as the engine is knocking. Unless its false knock from noisy TB, turbo or something lose on the car like exhaust hitting against the body etc causing false knock.


At WOT there should ideally never be any positive knock at all, or if the car does see positive knock it should quickly reduce to 0.00 or go negative which is proof of false knock or the engine picked up something, some engines are noisier than others, does not mean they are broken.

If a car stays at positive knock or it increases whilst at WOT, essentially get out of it, something is not right and no tuner will ever recommend this, I cannot see this being an EB thing either, plenty of people running superchargers and turbo's on the V8 motors and at WOT they have no knock or only negative (timing being added).

If on the EB positive knock is normal, then the tuner claiming this should post here and why, because that seems wrong to me, but always willing to be educated, could also ask Shaun at AED or Ken at PBD as they will know the truth as both have several if not 100's of 1000+ HP Mustangs tuned by them with turbos and plenty of EB's too.
 

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[MENTION=13598]Gibbo205[/MENTION] I've tagged [MENTION=19118]Tune+[/MENTION] he's not tuned my car yet, however, general rule of thumb on the facebook groups is, if it goes negative on the cobb, it's bad if the number goes above 0.00 then it's fine. It may jus tbe that the cobb registers it backwards. I'll have a word with a few people and see.

I know myself [MENTION=8914]Big_G[/MENTION] and other guys running the Cobb stage 1 all have the same logs tracking it (Minimal negative correction, the odd one or two blips of it, and the odd positive under WOT).

I'll post some pictures up tonight, someone far more knowledgable with the cobb and stuff will be able to explain it.

Maybe [MENTION=21881]MustangMustHaves[/MENTION] can help... come on PJ!
 
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Gibbo205

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[MENTION=13598]Gibbo205[/MENTION] I've tagged [MENTION=19118]Tune+[/MENTION] he's not tuned my car yet, however, general rule of thumb on the facebook groups is, if it goes negative on the cobb, it's bad if the number goes above 0.00 then it's fine. It may jus tbe that the cobb registers it backwards. I'll have a word with a few people and see.

I know myself [MENTION=8914]Big_G[/MENTION] and other guys running the Cobb stage 1 all have the same logs tracking it (Minimal negative correction, the odd one or two blips of it, and the odd positive under WOT).

I'll post some pictures up tonight, someone far more knowledgable with the cobb and stuff will be able to explain it.

Maybe [MENTION=21881]MustangMustHaves[/MENTION] can help... come on PJ!

Just send me a log, I know how to read them and understand them. :)

On the V8 with SCT Livewire and HP tuners, positive knock is full stop BAD! You want it at 0.00 or negative.

If it is the other way round on the COBB, then that would be plausible explanation. :)
 

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Gibbo205

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You guys are talking two different things. And are both right.

- Manders is talking about Ignition corrections
- Gibbo about Knock
Well Manders is responding to me about monitoring Knock sensors using SCT PID's.

So to save confusion is negative knock on the knock sensor good across all platforms, tuners, devices on Mustang as it is on the V8 using SCT/HPT ?
 

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The Cobb (not SCT) can monitor ignition corrections on all 4 cylinders, it does that by reading the info coming from the knock sensors (it has 2 of them). That doesn't tell you the whole picture though, it goes hand in hand with the Octane adjust ratio which needs to sit at -1.0.
Generally we monitor Cylinder 3 which is the one that can cause the most issues, all of the Ecoboost pro tuners tell you to watch for excessive negative corrections on Cyl 3. I'm always sitting at +8 and very rarely will it go over -2.0 at WOT
cobb.jpg
 
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The Cobb (not SCT) can monitor ignition corrections on all 4 cylinders, it does that by reading the info coming from the knock sensors (it has 2 of them). That doesn't tell you the whole picture though, it goes hand in hand with the Octane adjust ratio which needs to sit at -1.0.
Generally we monitor Cylinder 3 which is the one that can cause the most issues, all of the Ecoboost pro tuners tell you to watch for excessive negative corrections on Cyl 3. I'm always sitting at +8 and very rarely will it go over -2.0 at WOT

OK so in short, cobb positive is good, SCT positive is bad. Makes sense.
 

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OK so in short, cobb positive is good, SCT positive is bad. Makes sense.
Bingo, what I thought :p! Thank fk for that, I was about to call a bl00dy flat bed to take my car home and avoid the first UK ecoboom!
[MENTION=21881]MustangMustHaves[/MENTION] I was on about ign core corrections like graham just posted. :lol::thumbsup:
 

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No idea what you've posted Magnets, you're on my ignore list, but most of this stuff concerns V8's, so not really pertinent to your ride
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