Ford Performance Tune for 2018+ GT

[Jaymar]

Sticker will likely telegraph the raised emblem will it not?

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[Dave2013M3]

Well, good news I suppose. The rattle that I observed on the tune persists on the stock tune, albeit with a much lower rate of occurrence (almost never). Unfortunately, this gives me almost no information as to what could be causing it. There's really only two possibilities at this point. One being that something is just loose, either the exhaust midpipe or something on the engine itself. The extra torque could be triggering this harmonic more often. But given I usually only notice this in hot weather, that doesn't seem super likely. The second possibility is that this is just the "2k rattle" taken to the extreme due to higher GDI demand for knock control with higher IAT/ambients. If that's the case, which I'm starting to suspect (it always happens in the 2K rattle range of RPM), there's basically nothing to be done about it. The evidence against that though is that the only time I really heard this on the stock tune was a warm day, but nothing that crazy. And the car wasn't that hot, nor were IAT's very high. In fact, I'd only been driving for about 5 minutes at that point.

So basically, my car is just shit? The only saving grace is that I'm pretty confident nothing is actually broken, since if you actually put the pedal all the way down it runs flawlessly and strong, even with the tune, and even in hot weather. I know nobody really cares at this point, and it probably just seems like I'm incompetent, but I'm truly at a dead end with the information available to me, lol. I'm gonna check everything under the car that I can find at my next oil change, but if nothing stands out then I guess I'm just stuck with the stock tune if I want some semblance of quiet operation.

I would put the kit in and live with it. These cars make noise...hell you want to talk noisy the S65 in the BMW M3 when it was cold.

 

[ice445]

I would put the kit in and live with it. These cars make noise...hell you want to talk noisy the S65 in the BMW M3 when it was cold.

I'm starting to reach that conclusion myself. The more you stop obsessing and just enjoy the car, the more fun you have. I've started just leaving it on the fuel trip screen so I don't have to look at the number list. I've seen enough numbers at this point lol

 

[junits15]

Then why is it whisper quiet on stock tune in all situations on the same fuel or quiet with octane booster? I see what you're saying though, I thought it can use cam timing as well as spark in its correction factors for knock so I kinda lumped them together

It uses spark timing to control knock. It’s only like an extra degree or 2 of spark timing, but it’s base timing. If you have a monitoring device check the final timing while at WOT at redline on both tunes. I would bet a lot of cash that it’s the same number.

The tune (stock or FP) add timing in until it knocks, so the final timing it finds will actually depend more on your fuel than it does on the tune. So 91 run in both times should find nearly the same final timing.

All the FP tune does it make it come in ever so slightly quicker which gives that slight power bump and better feel

 

[ice445]

It uses spark timing to control knock. It’s only like an extra degree or 2 of spark timing, but it’s base timing. If you have a monitoring device check the final timing while at WOT at redline on both tunes. I would bet a lot of cash that it’s the same number.

The tune (stock or FP) add timing in until it knocks, so the final timing it finds will actually depend more on your fuel than it does on the tune. So 91 run in both times should find nearly the same final timing.

All the FP tune does it make it come in ever so slightly quicker which gives that slight power bump and better feel

How do you know this? Not to be condescending, I'm just curious. I've tried logging final timing but it seems to jump around too much, especially at part throttle. Makes it hard to compare outside of WOT.

I thought the FP tune adds more borderline spark timing under the assumption you had 91+ octane. For whatever reason on my car, that means nearly constant KR during acceleration (which is timing being pulled), because it knocks at the new base/initial borderline hit whereas it doesn't on stock tune (at least in hot weather). Stock tune is basically always adding timing. This doesn't really matter in practice, but it seems to correspond with the range I get these rattle/ping noises. Once it makes the corrections then it's fine. Or if I use higher octane, it also seems to be fine. Or if I floor it instead of part throttle acceleration, it also seems to be fine.

The one thing that perplexes me about this that nobody can explain, is why I would be able to hear anything at all if knock is well within the correctable range? It can't be knock, yet it seems to correspond with it, which is why the stock tune is quiet in comparison. At least that's my best guess.

Another big issue with this whole debacle is that it's difficult to really nail down what is what with how noisy these engines are in the first place. It also makes it hard to do 1:1 comparisons between the tunes, because so many variables seem to play a part. I can hear nothing 1 day and then get a noise the next.

 

[boB]

Question for those with kit. Paint or sticker? My hands are not steady enough to paint. Maybe my daughter or wife can paint.

Tape around the area as best you can then paint the raised lettering with a rubber roller and thick paint. That is how I did my engine cover.

 

[junits15]

How do you know this? Not to be condescending, I'm just curious. I've tried logging final timing but it seems to jump around too much, especially at part throttle. Makes it hard to compare outside of WOT.

I thought the FP tune adds more borderline spark timing under the assumption you had 91+ octane. For whatever reason on my car, that means nearly constant KR during acceleration (which is timing being pulled), because it knocks at the new base/initial borderline hit whereas it doesn't on stock tune (at least in hot weather). Stock tune is basically always adding timing. This doesn't really matter in practice, but it seems to correspond with the range I get these rattle/ping noises. Once it makes the corrections then it's fine. Or if I use higher octane, it also seems to be fine. Or if I floor it instead of part throttle acceleration, it also seems to be fine.

The one thing that perplexes me about this that nobody can explain, is why I would be able to hear anything at all if knock is well within the correctable range? It can't be knock, yet it seems to correspond with it, which is why the stock tune is quiet in comparison. At least that's my best guess.

Another big issue with this whole debacle is that it's difficult to really nail down what is what with how noisy these engines are in the first place. It also makes it hard to do 1:1 comparisons between the tunes, because so many variables seem to play a part. I can hear nothing 1 day and then get a noise the next.

I've just spent time logging these tunes, and I've learned how they behave. It does jump around a lot, and it can be hard to track. HPtuners or PCMtech would give a clearer picture of what's happening. I haven't personally logged the FP tune, however I have a copy of the file, so I can see what is changed on it. That's what makes me confident in how it operates.

Your understanding of the tune is correct, it adds borderline timing, and then the tune uses KR to add or subtract timing as needed.

This is a stock tune pull on 87 at 5700RPM, so we're seeing knock on the green plot because the value is a positive number, the KR is pulling out timing. You can see how the pink line kind of "floats" on the knock threshold of the fuel because of the action of the green line.

The trick with making this work is that you have to add timing gradually or else you can get massive dangerous knock early in the pull. That is hard for the system to react fast enough to. The FP tune increases the timing slightly so that we don't need to wait as long for the power, and gives that nice punch. That's also why octane booster feels better, because it takes time for the KR to add timing in, with a higher starting point (borderline) you need to wait less time for the KR to float on the knock threshold of the fuel.

My only guess is that maybe the fuel you get in your area is just slightly lower octane than the tune wants.

 

[StangTime]

I've just spent time logging these tunes, and I've learned how they behave. It does jump around a lot, and it can be hard to track. HPtuners or PCMtech would give a clearer picture of what's happening. I haven't personally logged the FP tune, however I have a copy of the file, so I can see what is changed on it. That's what makes me confident in how it operates.

Your understanding of the tune is correct, it adds borderline timing, and then the tune uses KR to add or subtract timing as needed.

This is a stock tune pull on 87 at 5700RPM, so we're seeing knock on the green plot because the value is a positive number, the KR is pulling out timing. You can see how the pink line kind of "floats" on the knock threshold of the fuel because of the action of the green line.

The trick with making this work is that you have to add timing gradually or else you can get massive dangerous knock early in the pull. That is hard for the system to react fast enough to. The FP tune increases the timing slightly so that we don't need to wait as long for the power, and gives that nice punch. That's also why octane booster feels better, because it takes time for the KR to add timing in, with a higher starting point (borderline) you need to wait less time for the KR to float on the knock threshold of the fuel.

My only guess is that maybe the fuel you get in your area is just slightly lower octane than the tune wants.

I feel my car was even worse than @ice445's. After a few thousand km's my car just started knocking. Even on 93 octane. There is a definite audible knock noise that can be heard with the windows up and coincides with KNOCK SPRK going positive.

FP Tune:

Stock tune. Same gas. No knock noise.

I suck at interpreting data logs.

 

[ice445]

I've just spent time logging these tunes, and I've learned how they behave. It does jump around a lot, and it can be hard to track. HPtuners or PCMtech would give a clearer picture of what's happening. I haven't personally logged the FP tune, however I have a copy of the file, so I can see what is changed on it. That's what makes me confident in how it operates.

Your understanding of the tune is correct, it adds borderline timing, and then the tune uses KR to add or subtract timing as needed.

This is a stock tune pull on 87 at 5700RPM, so we're seeing knock on the green plot because the value is a positive number, the KR is pulling out timing. You can see how the pink line kind of "floats" on the knock threshold of the fuel because of the action of the green line.

The trick with making this work is that you have to add timing gradually or else you can get massive dangerous knock early in the pull. That is hard for the system to react fast enough to. The FP tune increases the timing slightly so that we don't need to wait as long for the power, and gives that nice punch. That's also why octane booster feels better, because it takes time for the KR to add timing in, with a higher starting point (borderline) you need to wait less time for the KR to float on the knock threshold of the fuel.

My only guess is that maybe the fuel you get in your area is just slightly lower octane than the tune wants.

Thanks for the info, and I'd agree with that assessment based on what I've seen.

I feel my car was even worse than @ice445's. After a few thousand km's my car just started knocking. Even on 93 octane. There is a definite audible knock noise that can be heard with the windows up and coincides with KNOCK SPRK going positive.

FP Tune:

Stock tune. Same gas. No knock noise.

I suck at interpreting data logs.

This right here is the most confusing thing for me, you shouldn't be able to hear knock unless it's spiking to +10 because it ran out of correction. Add that to the fact it doesn't change with octane for you and it just doesn't make sense! Lol

 

[Rolls]

Pcmtec has map tracing which may assist with overlaying the knock detected with the spark table.
Also make sure to only log the minimum number of items to get the fastest logging resolution. Steady state or hold the brake pedal down when doing wot pulls to slow runs down will help also.
The filter out transient data using megalog viewer or use the built in filtering in pcmtec.
Try and compare runs with similar IAT and CHT temps.
You may be getting phantom knock due to something rubbing or hanging in the engine bay also. You really need real knock ears to verify if it is real knock or not.
Not trivial at all to do this properly.

 

[ice445]

Pcmtec has map tracing which may assist with overlaying the knock detected with the spark table.
Also make sure to only log the minimum number of items to get the fastest logging resolution. Steady state or hold the brake pedal down when doing wot pulls to slow runs down will help also.
The filter out transient data using megalog viewer or use the built in filtering in pcmtec.
Try and compare runs with similar IAT and CHT temps.
You may be getting phantom knock due to something rubbing or hanging in the engine bay also. You really need real knock ears to verify if it is real knock or not.
Not trivial at all to do this properly.

You're probably on the right track. What would I need from you guys to properly read and datalog my car? I would prefer some software that can read things like per cylinder ignition correction which I currently lack.

 

[Rolls]

Buy our base package is all you need. Or see one of the tuners on our website that use our software.

 

[shawn.m]

Installed the kit and updated the ECU last night. Nothing huge in power. Down low is some power as it shifts less. Clean up of the shifting very very.nice. As others have said the A10 shift pattern clean up is very welcome and almost worth the kit alone. Surprising thing is how much quieter my vert is without the sound tube. Very used to how my car sounds and this is a large change. We will see how it sounds when I install the Borla Switch fire. I got the kit for only $850 so pretty happy.
A small note. My brake vacuum line is routed a little different. I did not have to cut the engine cover

 

[victory-rc]

Dragy says PP2 is about 3 tenths quicker 1/4 mile.... seeing 118mph also... trans has calmed down another also...fully warrantied also... if I could get a good 60 ft it would be a 11 second car .. loved it on my 17' love it on my 21'.

 

[ice445]

I'm sure you're all tired of my drama, but I had to return to display the egg on my face. I found out today that my right exhaust tip is actually making contact with the bumper plastic in certain situations. I checked this a while ago, but apparently not well enough. It explains the mysterious knock I've seen on logs for a while now. I believe the reason it's been so hard to catch on the stock tune is because there's less torque, and thus it makes contact far less often. It seems to require me to be going over a bump or rough road while accelerating. Some amount of rear suspension compression.

Also, something I didn't consider is that when I had the FP tune and kit on the car, I went on camping trips each time with 200lbs of gear in the trunk. No wonder it would "knock" so much and I was seeing like +8 in some cases.

Now my only question is if it's the exhaust itself making these noises, or the false knock is causing the ECU to do something that makes the noise. It's most likely the exhaust. I wonder if it's only happening in an obvious way in hot weather is due to the rubber exhaust mounts being softer and allowing more movement.

I'm going to hassle MBRP to send me a replacement muffler to correct this (it's not the install, the right tip sits higher than the left because the pipes aren't perfectly parallel), and then retest the kit. You can see the inconsistency in this picture, the right tip being the problem child. I could never get it to contact by hand so I thought it was fine, but today I saw some marring on both the tip and the plastic that proved me wrong.

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