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Ford marries Tesla? God help us all.

shogun32

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Rinzler

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speculation of course https://fordauthority.com/2020/12/tesla-open-to-merger-with-traditional-automaker-should-it-be-ford/
but yikes! Tesla needs to die a grisly death on principal (lousy quality, overpriced, and Fk electrics) instead of continuing to live by sucking the marrow of a "viable" legacy auto-maker. Unfortunately Ford family would be the ones too stupid to actually think this was a good idea.
Lol. Well that's just like...your opinion man. Tesla Is Now The World’s Most Valuable Car Company With A $208 Billion Valuation

Ford doesn't have the market cap to buy Tesla, even if they wanted. Tesla has a higher valuation than Ford. Ford would only be so lucky to merge with Tesla.

Ford stock has been rated junk for longer than I care to research and has cycled 3 CEOs in less than a decade. What Ford desperately needs is NEW BLOOD and NEW IDEAS.
 

Laztug

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Sounds like a great idea.
 
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shogun32

shogun32

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Rinzler

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I'm aware of that. Valuation in this superheated stock market does not reflect product quality, wise management, or even profitability.

And Musk knows he's f'ked until and unless he can actually make money.
https://www.zerohedge.com/technolog...ability-or-stock-will-immediately-get-crushed
That's very true, however, market cap shows market confidence in the product. Everyone knows the main problem with Tesla, is not it's products, it's Elon. Also, their product quality issues are essentially being hyper-focused on because it's a new product. Ford just settled a 30 million dollar settlement for the DCT in the Fiesta/Focus and the MT-82 has been long thought to be a trash transmissions which class actions filed against it. Also, the Explorer/Aviator launch was probably one of the worst in the car industry in recent memory. As far as quality and reliability, Ford should not be the one throwing stones here.
 

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shogun32

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Ford should not be the one throwing stones here.
I don't work for Ford. Ford's stock is where it deserves to be. Tesla should be a $3 dollar stock if it was valued correctly.

Unfortunately I think it's going to take Ford going bankrupt for them to pull their head out of their ass.

As to Tesla I expect they'll become an assembly supplier - motors and controls and maybe cabin software but the battery tech is probably a zero. Elon may have some smart guys but eventually the horde of less-intelligent monkeys will catch up and overwhelm the small cadre of smarter ones.
 
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Laztug

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Calling out OKC #1 spot after axle back install.
Ford has the assembly side down.
I am sure Ford would be looking into the technology Tesla has to offer.
Electric motors, batteries, and what they have planned for the future.

Lets not forget the roadster specs.
0-60 1.9
1/4 8.8
range 620miles

Imagine some of that technology trickling down into the mustang?
What manufacturer wouldn't want a piece of that pie?
 

Rinzler

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I don't work for Ford. Ford's stock is where it deserves to be. Tesla should be a $3 dollar stock if it was valued correctly.

Unfortunately I think it's going to take Ford going bankrupt for them to pull their head out of their ass.

As to Tesla I expect they'll become an assembly supplier - motors and controls and maybe cabin software but the battery tech is probably a zero. Elon may have some smart guys but eventually the horde of less-intelligent monkeys will catch up and overwhelm the small cadre of smarter ones.
I mean, that's just not what we're seeing in the market. Market valuation is a reflection of both actual and perceived value. Tesla has essentially built an entire business case, manufacturing process, charging infrastructure, and consumer vehicle business from the ground up. They literally created a product then the demand followed. That is an INCREDIBLY powerful thing in the world of consumer sales.

Sure there are lots of kinks and loose strings, but they've done this so successfully, so convincingly, they've gone unchallenged in the space for nearly a decade. Traditional manufacturers are JUST starting to bring competition to the market. The popularity of Tesla vehicles is very real and after 10 years, I don't think you can consider it a fad.

The self-driving tech and data pool Tesla has amassed has also seemed to leapfrog anything anyone else is doing both in the software-centric space, such as Waymo, and traditional automakers. This makes for another essentially unchallenged space in which the closest competitors, like Audi and Volvo, are still hitting people with their cars. Teslas have to-market betas of full self driving and Ford has managed parking assists where you still need to interact with the system.

You sound like you've got a gigantic stick up your rear end about electric vehicles and Tesla for some reason. I'm sure you're plenty wise, but man, you're very wrong about this.

I love my big and loud V8, but also I'm not so biased to the ever changing technology.
 
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shogun32

shogun32

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Traditional manufacturers are JUST starting to bring competition to the market. The popularity of Tesla vehicles is very real and after 10 years, I don't think you can consider it a fad.
I don't think I was saying electric vehicles are a fad. They will continue to exist by virtue of the gov't forcing it down people's throats in excess of natural demand. But the 2nd-movers will cream Tesla into oblivion. Tesla was forced to build his own charging infra because a car without a source of energy to replenish 'the tank' is worth less than a paperweight.
The self-driving tech
is lethal and the NHTSA should have banned it YEARS ago from being fielded on public roads. There is only ONE "safe" self-driving tech and it's when you hire a taxi or limo and you sit in the back seat and let a separate human drive for you. (yes, assumes the professional driver is paying attention and sober)

As to the Mustang Lightning, or that mis-named CUV with triple-segment brake lights if there's an actual market that will sustain them, let Ford try but I expect they will be major loss makers.
 
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JohnnyGT

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:blush: We've got a new model Y coming in 12 days.
 

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Norm Peterson

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I mean, that's just not what we're seeing in the market. Market valuation is a reflection of both actual and perceived value. Tesla has essentially built an entire business case, manufacturing process, charging infrastructure, and consumer vehicle business from the ground up. They literally created a product then the demand followed. That is an INCREDIBLY powerful thing in the world of consumer sales.
For Tesla, their stock value and market capitalization are hugely speculative. How else can their market cap be in the Toyota ballpark while selling something like 3% as many cars? There's an awful lot of wishful investor thinking going on here . . .

Tesla sells carbon credits, which they didn't have to buy in the first place.


Sure there are lots of kinks and loose strings, but they've done this so successfully, so convincingly, they've gone unchallenged in the space for nearly a decade. Traditional manufacturers are JUST starting to bring competition to the market. The popularity of Tesla vehicles is very real and after 10 years, I don't think you can consider it a fad.
A quarter of a million cars a year is peanuts in the overall picture of global car sales. Sure, it's up by big percentage numbers from a few years ago, but that's easy given that the initial sales numbers were truly miniscule.


The self-driving tech and data pool Tesla has amassed has also seemed to leapfrog anything anyone else is doing both in the software-centric space, such as Waymo, and traditional automakers. This makes for another essentially unchallenged space in which the closest competitors, like Audi and Volvo, are still hitting people with their cars. Teslas have to-market betas of full self driving and Ford has managed parking assists where you still need to interact with the system.
And Teslas can't see the broad side of a truck (multiple cases, including a fire truck). Your point?

Just because something is perhaps theoretically possible is not sufficient justification to try to make it happen.


You sound like you've got a gigantic stick up your rear end about electric vehicles and Tesla for some reason. I'm sure you're plenty wise, but man, you're very wrong about this.

I love my big and loud V8, but also I'm not so biased to the ever changing technology.
Are you blind to the possibility that your ever-evolving technology will eventually take more away from you than it provides in benefits that you fully appreciate?

What I can say is that you won't know the entirety of what you just posted until the technological progress you're placing on a pedestal today, takes something away from you tomorrow that you really don't want to give up.


Norm
 

Rinzler

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For Tesla, their stock value and market capitalization are hugely speculative. How else can their market cap be in the Toyota ballpark while selling something like 3% as many cars? There's an awful lot of wishful investor thinking going on here . . .

Tesla sells carbon credits, which they didn't have to buy in the first place.



A quarter of a million cars a year is peanuts in the overall picture of global car sales. Sure, it's up by big percentage numbers from a few years ago, but that's easy given that the initial sales numbers were truly miniscule.



And Teslas can't see the broad side of a truck (multiple cases, including a fire truck). Your point?

Just because something is perhaps theoretically possible is not sufficient justification to try to make it happen.



Are you blind to the possibility that your ever-evolving technology will eventually take more away from you than it provides in benefits that you fully appreciate?

What I can say is that you won't know the entirety of what you just posted until the technological progress you're placing on a pedestal today, takes something away from you tomorrow that you really don't want to give up.


Norm
That's ok man, if you don't care for the tech, that's fine. Step aside. Progress will wait, I promise.
 

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A hybrid Ford GT with Tesla motors on the front wheels ala Porsche 918 and McLaren P1 would be one hell of a halo car for Ford.

Of course with a lesser version trickling down the Mustang.
 
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shogun32

shogun32

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A hybrid Ford GT with Tesla motors on the front wheels ala Porsche 918 and McLaren P1 would be one hell of a halo car for Ford.

Of course with a lesser version trickling down the Mustang.
Ford filed a (design?) patent for that a year or two back. I reckon it'll show up on F150 first.
 

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That's ok man, if you don't care for the tech, that's fine. Step aside. Progress will wait, I promise.
What I want or don't want has nothing to do with the value of Tesla being as speculative as it is.

The products themselves do leave a good bit to be desired in several respects.

Teslas may be relatively popular in a few local regions, but that's not the same thing as "The popularity of Tesla vehicles is very real". While I never took Tesla to be a fad, it is the kind of product that is going to attract a lot of early adopters for reasons quite separate from actual product goodness, and that needs to be considered carefully if you're going to try to use their past sales performance to predict their future. Hmmmm, doesn't stock investing carry a similar-sounding caveat?


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