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Ford Inspector for Warranty Repair-Update:Warranty Denied Claim Due to Off Road Racing

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mikedahammer

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TL;DR - The question to be answered by the arbitrator is HPDE a form or subset of the word racing? That is what is being decided.


I struggled yesterday on how to post an update. Ideally I would just let everyone watch the hearing and then everyone else can form their own opinion. I am going to ask if I can get a copy of the hearing (which I am allowed) and if names and faces are redacted if it can be released.

I wasn't perfect as I would have like but that is always the case. I messed up on a few words but the mistakes were inconsequential. For example, while I was looking to present more information I said the GT500 was the predecessor of the GT350 instead of successor. With that the said it went really well and I believe I spanked them. I hope the arbitrator gives a deep analysis into the case.


The long update:

At the beginning of the arbitration the arbitrator wanted to stipulate that the case at hand was really only about defining HPDE and if it is a form of racing. This threw me off guard at the start because I was expecting to explain how we ended up in arbitration.

Ford brought an attorney and a technical expert. Ford and the technical agree to stipulate that the arbitration was really about HPDE and racing and are they related or intertwined. After Ford agreed to the stipulation, I also with the caveat that I agree as long as they do not enter into evidence other information since they have changed their position multiple times.

The arbitrator asked me to present information on HPDE and what is it. I told the arbitrator that I had no idea what HPDE was or track driving was until I bought the Mustang. I spent twenty minutes talking about HPDE with various organization and that Ford encourages taking the vehicle to the track and that Ford offers you a complimentary track day high performance driving experience. I talk about the track attack programs. I showed pictures of me in the track attack car and shows were I am outfitted with a rollbar and 4 or 5 point harness. I talked about why those are important and I show that the track attack cars removed their factory seat belts. I then show picture of my car with the same harness bar and same harnessed and how my car still has the factory seat belts and buckle. I talk about how HPDE is a car show but where you get to drive your car and it is social event where everyone is there to have fun and that you get to see cool cars but also get to see them go around the track. I have always told people that is my personal man spa day for me.

I explain that the safety items are not required but that I have them to mirror the track attack program and that those items should have no bearing on the transmission and talk about how I value my safety.

When I was done with the presentation I asked the arbitrator if he had any questions on HPDE: He asked me if I agreed that HPDE is not racing as defined in the warranty or any kind of common law definition of the meaning?

I then spend 10 minutes showing the base warranty from the owner's supplement and the list of exclusions as well as the Ford definition of racing and showing how the ESP contract uses the exact same exclusions and in some cases word for word. I further show that in the base warranty Ford includes in that document a section on the ESP and how purchasing it can get your more coverage than you already have and that it is recommended in the owner's supplement to purchase it.

It is Ford's turn now and they spend about 10 minutes talking:

Ford starts by trying to distance them from the new vehicle warranty and that the ESP has another set of terms and conditions. They do not spend much time on it and then go right to 7d of the contract of what is and what is not covered and then skip everything in that section except for losses due to negligence or racing. The attorney reads a definition about racing, she uses the following definition: she says the dictionary definition of racing that in the sport of automobiles is in which drivers compete against each other on course designed for racing or on a closed public road. They agree that there is no definition of racing in the contract and they say that there is separation between Ford's base warranty and the ESP and they we cannot use Ford's language.

Ford turns the floor over to their technical expert. The technical expert says it was denied by their department because the car was obviously used at a track. He talks about safety devices and how those devices were designed specifically for racing to protect the driver. He comes out and says that using the vehicle on track is not the reason for the denial and that using the car on the track is not automatically the reason for a denial. It is my specific use of the vehicle is the reason or the denial.

He says that if the power the steering failed at the track they would cover it because that failure was not a direct result of track use. He then talks about the tires on the car and how they have been overheated and then talks about a clutch. He says that the tires and clutch are indicators that the car has been used in racing.

He then goes on to say that it is widely known that HPDE only says no racing for insurance purposes and that have to do that because if they didn’t they would have to carry race insurance and it would be too expensive for those groups. He says that the way the vehicle is driven on the racetrack in HPDE events is no different than the way you would drive it in a race and the only difference is are you timing it and is there something trying to pass you at the same time.

He talks about how track advantage has a group that is unrestricted and requires a race license and that there is no way to know whether or not the vehicle was ever driven in race but they have clear evidence that the car has been to the track and has experienced the same stresses as it would see during a race.

The arbitrator asks the technical expert if the damage to the clutch is consistent with high intensity use, like racing? The technical expert says not only the clutch but the tires are indicative of racing because the tries had signs of high heat and high speed.

The arbitrator asked me I had any questions or not. I reminded the group that we stipulated to HPDE and racing and now we are talking about tires and the clutch. I present that the car has street legal DOT tires on it and that Ford has not presented any pictures of the tires or entered them into evidence and that I have pictures of the tires and clutch.

I go through the comparison of my clutch and the old clutch and how the dealer said the clutch has zero issues and was never brought up in the denial until questions about racing (i.e. their adjustment to their disposition). I talked about how the tires, the seats, or harness bar had no bearing on the transmission. I talk about how the attorney and technical expert are identifying themselves as Ford and that the Ford logo is on all of their paperwork and that they are trying to distance themselves from Ford but nothing shows they are different. I talk about how I can call Ford and they will transfer me to ESP and that I couldn’t call Chevy and have them transfer me to Ford. That the Ford’s website will link you to the ESP.

Ford’s technical expert presents the pictures of the tires. They were not submitted with the original information but during the presentation they bring up the pictures. I ask the technical expert about the indentations on the tires and why they are there. He said he is not a tire expert but they are for water dissipation. I tell him they are tread wear indicators and the tires still have life left in them. He talked about the sidewall line and how much heat went across the tire. We go back and forth about contact patch and I present a picture of the tire unused and how it does not look that much different from a brand new one. I show the arbitrator that the tires are not as he has described.

I asked the technical expert how he knew the transmission failed as a direct result of track use? He said because the dealer was saying that 2nd gear and 3rd gear were jamming up ad since they know the car was used on the track it was a direct result of the stresses it has seen and the overuse of those synchronizers. He also stated that on the track that those gears are extremely important and more used on a track with high speed corning.

I asked if in his technical opinion and if he would agree that if 2nd and 3rd gear synchronizers whether used on the track or not are the typical gears that fail in his technical opinion. He agrees that those are the most used gears and would typically ones that would fail because of the use of those gears.

I then ask him in technical knowledge if he would agree that the transmission in the GT350 is equipped with a transmission that can handle track use. He said that even though those gears are the ones that would typically wear out but for them to wear out at 9000 miles is extremely early. He also says the synchronizers are designed differently but that also assumes it is being driven by someone knows what they are doing and no missing shifts or grinding the clutch and those will wear out the synchronizers and that the propensity for that to happen is much greater at the track.

I asked if poor workmanship from Ford could cause the transmission to have a failure at this mileage. He says the chances are infinitely small since it was 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. I rebut and say that it seems like a workmanship issues if I have issues with all of those gears and that the car was resented for a similar issues one year ago and that it is possible it was fixed properly previously and that is why I am having continued problems.

We then spend 10 minutes bumbling through whether or not it was the same issue previously which was a giant waste of time.

The arbitrator asks if I have anything else. I spend 10 minutes on my closing argument. I go over HPDE briefly one more time about FATT, Chin, and Track Advantage and how I don’t have a race license and how we could call the sanctioning bodies to confirm. I talked about how the safety gear in those organizations only requires a helmet.

I quickly talk about hagerty insurance and opentrack and show where I purchased a policy and those policies do not cover you for competition or racing. So if the car was being used for racing why would I have regular car insurance, supplemental track insurance, and have the car tagged and titled for street use.

I point out that all the promotion material supports track use, that the ES supports track use, and it doesn’t matter who produced the material because it represents the car. I then point out how the ESP contract specifically excludes certain vehicles and that most of the vehicles excluded are high performance cars and that the ESP had every opportunity to exclude the GT350 and that they knew or should have known the vehicles they were insuring. That Ford had not provided a shred of evidence racing. The car was setup in the same way now as it was in 2020 when I purchased the warranty. They knew the car was used at the track when they sold me the warranty. They knew what the car looked like and how it was outfitted since it had been the dealership 15 times prior to selling me the warranty. That repairs were covered previously with the car in the same condition it is now and that they had every opportunity to deny me a warranty but they chose to enter into the agreement to cover that vehicle.

I show that it is reasonable to accept Ford’s definition of racing because there is nothing to the contrary. That the ESP says on this call that track usage is allowed and that the car has been used as it was intended. I note that they have control of the vehicle and have had every opportunity to pull data from the car to show abuse or neglect and that I feel that they probably did pull that information and couldn’t find a way deny it that way.

I then show my computation of how I computed the loss of use of vehicle to quantify what I am asking and why I should be compensated and why the car is still at the dealership.

Ford’s closing they ask the arbitrator to go back and review the testimony because I have presented a lot irrelevant information that that the arbitrator should not considered the other insurance contracts I have, or the HPDE documents, or the other vehicles excluded in the terms and conditions of the ESP are all irrelevant. They want denial not because it was used in a race but because the vehicle was used in the same manner as a race.

I end it by saying that it is misleading to allow the ESP to distance themselves from Ford when they are here on Ford’s behalf as well.
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Tomster

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Wow. Nice job Mike. How long until you hear? I would like to see the video as well.
 
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mikedahammer

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Wow. Nice job Mike. How long until you hear? I would like to see the video as well.
He said he has three business days but he wasn't sure and I didn't see anything in the agreement that stipulated the ruling time frame. I would image up to 14 days would reasonable.
 

Inthehighdesert

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That’s a good synopsis. One question. My bad if I missed this at some point. How is/was it addressed, or was it, that racing is a heads up competition between two or more participants.


TL;DR - The question to be answered by the arbitrator is HPDE a form or subset of the word racing? That is what is being decided.


I struggled yesterday on how to post an update. Ideally I would just let everyone watch the hearing and then everyone else can form their own opinion. I am going to ask if I can get a copy of the hearing (which I am allowed) and if names and faces are redacted if it can be released.

I wasn't perfect as I would have like but that is always the case. I messed up on a few words but the mistakes were inconsequential. For example, while I was looking to present more information I said the GT500 was the predecessor of the GT350 instead of successor. With that the said it went really well and I believe I spanked them. I hope the arbitrator gives a deep analysis into the case.


The long update:

At the beginning of the arbitration the arbitrator wanted to stipulate that the case at hand was really only about defining HPDE and if it is a form of racing. This threw me off guard at the start because I was expecting to explain how we ended up in arbitration.

Ford brought an attorney and a technical expert. Ford and the technical agree to stipulate that the arbitration was really about HPDE and racing and are they related or intertwined. After Ford agreed to the stipulation, I also with the caveat that I agree as long as they do not enter into evidence other information since they have changed their position multiple times.

The arbitrator asked me to present information on HPDE and what is it. I told the arbitrator that I had no idea what HPDE was or track driving was until I bought the Mustang. I spent twenty minutes talking about HPDE with various organization and that Ford encourages taking the vehicle to the track and that Ford offers you a complimentary track day high performance driving experience. I talk about the track attack programs. I showed pictures of me in the track attack car and shows were I am outfitted with a rollbar and 4 or 5 point harness. I talked about why those are important and I show that the track attack cars removed their factory seat belts. I then show picture of my car with the same harness bar and same harnessed and how my car still has the factory seat belts and buckle. I talk about how HPDE is a car show but where you get to drive your car and it is social event where everyone is there to have fun and that you get to see cool cars but also get to see them go around the track. I have always told people that is my personal man spa day for me.

I explain that the safety items are not required but that I have them to mirror the track attack program and that those items should have no bearing on the transmission and talk about how I value my safety.

When I was done with the presentation I asked the arbitrator if he had any questions on HPDE: He asked me if I agreed that HPDE is not racing as defined in the warranty or any kind of common law definition of the meaning?

I then spend 10 minutes showing the base warranty from the owner's supplement and the list of exclusions as well as the Ford definition of racing and showing how the ESP contract uses the exact same exclusions and in some cases word for word. I further show that in the base warranty Ford includes in that document a section on the ESP and how purchasing it can get your more coverage than you already have and that it is recommended in the owner's supplement to purchase it.

It is Ford's turn now and they spend about 10 minutes talking:

Ford starts by trying to distance them from the new vehicle warranty and that the ESP has another set of terms and conditions. They do not spend much time on it and then go right to 7d of the contract of what is and what is not covered and then skip everything in that section except for losses due to negligence or racing. The attorney reads a definition about racing, she uses the following definition: she says the dictionary definition of racing that in the sport of automobiles is in which drivers compete against each other on course designed for racing or on a closed public road. They agree that there is no definition of racing in the contract and they say that there is separation between Ford's base warranty and the ESP and they we cannot use Ford's language.

Ford turns the floor over to their technical expert. The technical expert says it was denied by their department because the car was obviously used at a track. He talks about safety devices and how those devices were designed specifically for racing to protect the driver. He comes out and says that using the vehicle on track is not the reason for the denial and that using the car on the track is not automatically the reason for a denial. It is my specific use of the vehicle is the reason or the denial.

He says that if the power the steering failed at the track they would cover it because that failure was not a direct result of track use. He then talks about the tires on the car and how they have been overheated and then talks about a clutch. He says that the tires and clutch are indicators that the car has been used in racing.

He then goes on to say that it is widely known that HPDE only says no racing for insurance purposes and that have to do that because if they didn’t they would have to carry race insurance and it would be too expensive for those groups. He says that the way the vehicle is driven on the racetrack in HPDE events is no different than the way you would drive it in a race and the only difference is are you timing it and is there something trying to pass you at the same time.

He talks about how track advantage has a group that is unrestricted and requires a race license and that there is no way to know whether or not the vehicle was ever driven in race but they have clear evidence that the car has been to the track and has experienced the same stresses as it would see during a race.

The arbitrator asks the technical expert if the damage to the clutch is consistent with high intensity use, like racing? The technical expert says not only the clutch but the tires are indicative of racing because the tries had signs of high heat and high speed.

The arbitrator asked me I had any questions or not. I reminded the group that we stipulated to HPDE and racing and now we are talking about tires and the clutch. I present that the car has street legal DOT tires on it and that Ford has not presented any pictures of the tires or entered them into evidence and that I have pictures of the tires and clutch.

I go through the comparison of my clutch and the old clutch and how the dealer said the clutch has zero issues and was never brought up in the denial until questions about racing (i.e. their adjustment to their disposition). I talked about how the tires, the seats, or harness bar had no bearing on the transmission. I talk about how the attorney and technical expert are identifying themselves as Ford and that the Ford logo is on all of their paperwork and that they are trying to distance themselves from Ford but nothing shows they are different. I talk about how I can call Ford and they will transfer me to ESP and that I couldn’t call Chevy and have them transfer me to Ford. That the Ford’s website will link you to the ESP.

Ford’s technical expert presents the pictures of the tires. They were not submitted with the original information but during the presentation they bring up the pictures. I ask the technical expert about the indentations on the tires and why they are there. He said he is not a tire expert but they are for water dissipation. I tell him they are tread wear indicators and the tires still have life left in them. He talked about the sidewall line and how much heat went across the tire. We go back and forth about contact patch and I present a picture of the tire unused and how it does not look that much different from a brand new one. I show the arbitrator that the tires are not as he has described.

I asked the technical expert how he knew the transmission failed as a direct result of track use? He said because the dealer was saying that 2nd gear and 3rd gear were jamming up ad since they know the car was used on the track it was a direct result of the stresses it has seen and the overuse of those synchronizers. He also stated that on the track that those gears are extremely important and more used on a track with high speed corning.

I asked if in his technical opinion and if he would agree that if 2nd and 3rd gear synchronizers whether used on the track or not are the typical gears that fail in his technical opinion. He agrees that those are the most used gears and would typically ones that would fail because of the use of those gears.

I then ask him in technical knowledge if he would agree that the transmission in the GT350 is equipped with a transmission that can handle track use. He said that even though those gears are the ones that would typically wear out but for them to wear out at 9000 miles is extremely early. He also says the synchronizers are designed differently but that also assumes it is being driven by someone knows what they are doing and no missing shifts or grinding the clutch and those will wear out the synchronizers and that the propensity for that to happen is much greater at the track.

I asked if poor workmanship from Ford could cause the transmission to have a failure at this mileage. He says the chances are infinitely small since it was 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. I rebut and say that it seems like a workmanship issues if I have issues with all of those gears and that the car was resented for a similar issues one year ago and that it is possible it was fixed properly previously and that is why I am having continued problems.

We then spend 10 minutes bumbling through whether or not it was the same issue previously which was a giant waste of time.

The arbitrator asks if I have anything else. I spend 10 minutes on my closing argument. I go over HPDE briefly one more time about FATT, Chin, and Track Advantage and how I don’t have a race license and how we could call the sanctioning bodies to confirm. I talked about how the safety gear in those organizations only requires a helmet.

I quickly talk about hagerty insurance and opentrack and show where I purchased a policy and those policies do not cover you for competition or racing. So if the car was being used for racing why would I have regular car insurance, supplemental track insurance, and have the car tagged and titled for street use.

I point out that all the promotion material supports track use, that the ES supports track use, and it doesn’t matter who produced the material because it represents the car. I then point out how the ESP contract specifically excludes certain vehicles and that most of the vehicles excluded are high performance cars and that the ESP had every opportunity to exclude the GT350 and that they knew or should have known the vehicles they were insuring. That Ford had not provided a shred of evidence racing. The car was setup in the same way now as it was in 2020 when I purchased the warranty. They knew the car was used at the track when they sold me the warranty. They knew what the car looked like and how it was outfitted since it had been the dealership 15 times prior to selling me the warranty. That repairs were covered previously with the car in the same condition it is now and that they had every opportunity to deny me a warranty but they chose to enter into the agreement to cover that vehicle.

I show that it is reasonable to accept Ford’s definition of racing because there is nothing to the contrary. That the ESP says on this call that track usage is allowed and that the car has been used as it was intended. I note that they have control of the vehicle and have had every opportunity to pull data from the car to show abuse or neglect and that I feel that they probably did pull that information and couldn’t find a way deny it that way.

I then show my computation of how I computed the loss of use of vehicle to quantify what I am asking and why I should be compensated and why the car is still at the dealership.

Ford’s closing they ask the arbitrator to go back and review the testimony because I have presented a lot irrelevant information that that the arbitrator should not considered the other insurance contracts I have, or the HPDE documents, or the other vehicles excluded in the terms and conditions of the ESP are all irrelevant. They want denial not because it was used in a race but because the vehicle was used in the same manner as a race.

I end it by saying that it is misleading to allow the ESP to distance themselves from Ford when they are here on Ford’s behalf as well.
 

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MAGS1

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Great summary, thanks for sharing. Seems as though Ford and its “experts” tried to veer off course several times based on the stipulations set at the beginning of the hearing. To me that reads they have no basis in their claims so they’re trying to put other ideas in the arbitrator’s head (hey, we’re all human after all, put an idea in someone’s head they may not totally ignore it). Sounds like you presented your case well and at least to me it feels like you’re on firm ground. Will be curious how the arbitrator rules. Since you mentioned speaking to those that run HPDE and other various organizations, is the arbitrator allowed to do that while he reviews the testimony? If so, I hope he does. That should make it pretty cut and dry for your argument.
 

luc

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TL;DR - The question to be answered by the arbitrator is HPDE a form or subset of the word racing? That is what is being decided.


I struggled yesterday on how to post an update. Ideally I would just let everyone watch the hearing and then everyone else can form their own opinion. I am going to ask if I can get a copy of the hearing (which I am allowed) and if names and faces are redacted if it can be released.

I wasn't perfect as I would have like but that is always the case. I messed up on a few words but the mistakes were inconsequential. For example, while I was looking to present more information I said the GT500 was the predecessor of the GT350 instead of successor. With that the said it went really well and I believe I spanked them. I hope the arbitrator gives a deep analysis into the case.


The long update:

At the beginning of the arbitration the arbitrator wanted to stipulate that the case at hand was really only about defining HPDE and if it is a form of racing. This threw me off guard at the start because I was expecting to explain how we ended up in arbitration.

Ford brought an attorney and a technical expert. Ford and the technical agree to stipulate that the arbitration was really about HPDE and racing and are they related or intertwined. After Ford agreed to the stipulation, I also with the caveat that I agree as long as they do not enter into evidence other information since they have changed their position multiple times.

The arbitrator asked me to present information on HPDE and what is it. I told the arbitrator that I had no idea what HPDE was or track driving was until I bought the Mustang. I spent twenty minutes talking about HPDE with various organization and that Ford encourages taking the vehicle to the track and that Ford offers you a complimentary track day high performance driving experience. I talk about the track attack programs. I showed pictures of me in the track attack car and shows were I am outfitted with a rollbar and 4 or 5 point harness. I talked about why those are important and I show that the track attack cars removed their factory seat belts. I then show picture of my car with the same harness bar and same harnessed and how my car still has the factory seat belts and buckle. I talk about how HPDE is a car show but where you get to drive your car and it is social event where everyone is there to have fun and that you get to see cool cars but also get to see them go around the track. I have always told people that is my personal man spa day for me.

I explain that the safety items are not required but that I have them to mirror the track attack program and that those items should have no bearing on the transmission and talk about how I value my safety.

When I was done with the presentation I asked the arbitrator if he had any questions on HPDE: He asked me if I agreed that HPDE is not racing as defined in the warranty or any kind of common law definition of the meaning?

I then spend 10 minutes showing the base warranty from the owner's supplement and the list of exclusions as well as the Ford definition of racing and showing how the ESP contract uses the exact same exclusions and in some cases word for word. I further show that in the base warranty Ford includes in that document a section on the ESP and how purchasing it can get your more coverage than you already have and that it is recommended in the owner's supplement to purchase it.

It is Ford's turn now and they spend about 10 minutes talking:

Ford starts by trying to distance them from the new vehicle warranty and that the ESP has another set of terms and conditions. They do not spend much time on it and then go right to 7d of the contract of what is and what is not covered and then skip everything in that section except for losses due to negligence or racing. The attorney reads a definition about racing, she uses the following definition: she says the dictionary definition of racing that in the sport of automobiles is in which drivers compete against each other on course designed for racing or on a closed public road. They agree that there is no definition of racing in the contract and they say that there is separation between Ford's base warranty and the ESP and they we cannot use Ford's language.

Ford turns the floor over to their technical expert. The technical expert says it was denied by their department because the car was obviously used at a track. He talks about safety devices and how those devices were designed specifically for racing to protect the driver. He comes out and says that using the vehicle on track is not the reason for the denial and that using the car on the track is not automatically the reason for a denial. It is my specific use of the vehicle is the reason or the denial.

He says that if the power the steering failed at the track they would cover it because that failure was not a direct result of track use. He then talks about the tires on the car and how they have been overheated and then talks about a clutch. He says that the tires and clutch are indicators that the car has been used in racing.

He then goes on to say that it is widely known that HPDE only says no racing for insurance purposes and that have to do that because if they didn’t they would have to carry race insurance and it would be too expensive for those groups. He says that the way the vehicle is driven on the racetrack in HPDE events is no different than the way you would drive it in a race and the only difference is are you timing it and is there something trying to pass you at the same time.

He talks about how track advantage has a group that is unrestricted and requires a race license and that there is no way to know whether or not the vehicle was ever driven in race but they have clear evidence that the car has been to the track and has experienced the same stresses as it would see during a race.

The arbitrator asks the technical expert if the damage to the clutch is consistent with high intensity use, like racing? The technical expert says not only the clutch but the tires are indicative of racing because the tries had signs of high heat and high speed.

The arbitrator asked me I had any questions or not. I reminded the group that we stipulated to HPDE and racing and now we are talking about tires and the clutch. I present that the car has street legal DOT tires on it and that Ford has not presented any pictures of the tires or entered them into evidence and that I have pictures of the tires and clutch.

I go through the comparison of my clutch and the old clutch and how the dealer said the clutch has zero issues and was never brought up in the denial until questions about racing (i.e. their adjustment to their disposition). I talked about how the tires, the seats, or harness bar had no bearing on the transmission. I talk about how the attorney and technical expert are identifying themselves as Ford and that the Ford logo is on all of their paperwork and that they are trying to distance themselves from Ford but nothing shows they are different. I talk about how I can call Ford and they will transfer me to ESP and that I couldn’t call Chevy and have them transfer me to Ford. That the Ford’s website will link you to the ESP.

Ford’s technical expert presents the pictures of the tires. They were not submitted with the original information but during the presentation they bring up the pictures. I ask the technical expert about the indentations on the tires and why they are there. He said he is not a tire expert but they are for water dissipation. I tell him they are tread wear indicators and the tires still have life left in them. He talked about the sidewall line and how much heat went across the tire. We go back and forth about contact patch and I present a picture of the tire unused and how it does not look that much different from a brand new one. I show the arbitrator that the tires are not as he has described.

I asked the technical expert how he knew the transmission failed as a direct result of track use? He said because the dealer was saying that 2nd gear and 3rd gear were jamming up ad since they know the car was used on the track it was a direct result of the stresses it has seen and the overuse of those synchronizers. He also stated that on the track that those gears are extremely important and more used on a track with high speed corning.

I asked if in his technical opinion and if he would agree that if 2nd and 3rd gear synchronizers whether used on the track or not are the typical gears that fail in his technical opinion. He agrees that those are the most used gears and would typically ones that would fail because of the use of those gears.

I then ask him in technical knowledge if he would agree that the transmission in the GT350 is equipped with a transmission that can handle track use. He said that even though those gears are the ones that would typically wear out but for them to wear out at 9000 miles is extremely early. He also says the synchronizers are designed differently but that also assumes it is being driven by someone knows what they are doing and no missing shifts or grinding the clutch and those will wear out the synchronizers and that the propensity for that to happen is much greater at the track.

I asked if poor workmanship from Ford could cause the transmission to have a failure at this mileage. He says the chances are infinitely small since it was 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. I rebut and say that it seems like a workmanship issues if I have issues with all of those gears and that the car was resented for a similar issues one year ago and that it is possible it was fixed properly previously and that is why I am having continued problems.

We then spend 10 minutes bumbling through whether or not it was the same issue previously which was a giant waste of time.

The arbitrator asks if I have anything else. I spend 10 minutes on my closing argument. I go over HPDE briefly one more time about FATT, Chin, and Track Advantage and how I don’t have a race license and how we could call the sanctioning bodies to confirm. I talked about how the safety gear in those organizations only requires a helmet.

I quickly talk about hagerty insurance and opentrack and show where I purchased a policy and those policies do not cover you for competition or racing. So if the car was being used for racing why would I have regular car insurance, supplemental track insurance, and have the car tagged and titled for street use.

I point out that all the promotion material supports track use, that the ES supports track use, and it doesn’t matter who produced the material because it represents the car. I then point out how the ESP contract specifically excludes certain vehicles and that most of the vehicles excluded are high performance cars and that the ESP had every opportunity to exclude the GT350 and that they knew or should have known the vehicles they were insuring. That Ford had not provided a shred of evidence racing. The car was setup in the same way now as it was in 2020 when I purchased the warranty. They knew the car was used at the track when they sold me the warranty. They knew what the car looked like and how it was outfitted since it had been the dealership 15 times prior to selling me the warranty. That repairs were covered previously with the car in the same condition it is now and that they had every opportunity to deny me a warranty but they chose to enter into the agreement to cover that vehicle.

I show that it is reasonable to accept Ford’s definition of racing because there is nothing to the contrary. That the ESP says on this call that track usage is allowed and that the car has been used as it was intended. I note that they have control of the vehicle and have had every opportunity to pull data from the car to show abuse or neglect and that I feel that they probably did pull that information and couldn’t find a way deny it that way.

I then show my computation of how I computed the loss of use of vehicle to quantify what I am asking and why I should be compensated and why the car is still at the dealership.

Ford’s closing they ask the arbitrator to go back and review the testimony because I have presented a lot irrelevant information that that the arbitrator should not considered the other insurance contracts I have, or the HPDE documents, or the other vehicles excluded in the terms and conditions of the ESP are all irrelevant. They want denial not because it was used in a race but because the vehicle was used in the same manner as a race.

I end it by saying that it is misleading to allow the ESP to distance themselves from Ford when they are here on Ford’s behalf as well.
You did a great job
It is true that liability insurance, usually 5 million is required by the various tracks, is more expensive if there is a race group
Meaning if you have 3 hpde groups and i race group, the racing premium will be applied to the whole event
Ford Is 100% wrong to state that organizers call it hpde to avoid paying racing premium, that simply never happens for a good reason: it is the track itself that requires this liability insurance and you bet that they would close the event if they see racing under an hpde liability insurance
The easiest way to technically differentiate between hpde and racing is how the session is started
Racing Always has drivers grided by their best lap times, and do 1 lap at moderate speed , keeping their respective positions and, at the drop of the green flag put the pedal to the metal and start vying for position
That is called a rolling start. I pass on a standing start because it’s extremely rare
Hpde do it differently, no pacing before the green, no ordely start,etc
 

WItoTX

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So they went exactly the route I figured they would go. Glad you were prepared for it! Looking forward to the outcome, but based on arbitrators questions, I think he sees that you prepared better, but, and I'm not trying to be a bearer of bad news, HPDE is effectively the same as racing. It seems like he really angled his questions at answering that question/difference, and his questions imply he wasn't convinced.

I do hope I'm wrong.
 
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mikedahammer

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That’s a good synopsis. One question. My bad if I missed this at some point. How is/was it addressed, or was it, that racing is a heads up competition between two or more participants.
It didn't specifically come up. My brain didn't go into the race aspect but that is a solid point as to say everyone knows what a race is and if you did an HPDE you would recognize the difference.

For the next guy it wouldn't hurt to show a race event and what the cars look like and then show the HPDE event and the cars. Just looking at the paddock area will say everything. As we all know there are very few, if any, racecars that attend HPDE events. If there is a racecar it is either because it has a separate division for those cars and drivers OR it is a car that was once racecars but is now retired as an HPDE car.
 

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WItoTX

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Nope.

I've had lawyers review. They don't agree with you. But as the saying goes, on any given Sunday......
Again, read the context I put that statement in.

If I was Ford, I'm talking the reality of HPDE, vs what the definition of racing is. One is a legal-ese position, one is based in actual felt forces inside the car. Are the forces in racing any different then HPDE? The best argument is could have would be a video of him doing point bys to every other car on the track, showing he's out just messing around, not driving to the limit, which is exactly what Ford attempted to say he was doing with their argument.

Based on what OP wrote, their argument sucked. Or at least wasn't well stated.

You get that GTD ordered yet?
 
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mikedahammer

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Great summary, thanks for sharing. Seems as though Ford and its “experts” tried to veer off course several times based on the stipulations set at the beginning of the hearing. To me that reads they have no basis in their claims so they’re trying to put other ideas in the arbitrator’s head (hey, we’re all human after all, put an idea in someone’s head they may not totally ignore it). Sounds like you presented your case well and at least to me it feels like you’re on firm ground. Will be curious how the arbitrator rules. Since you mentioned speaking to those that run HPDE and other various organizations, is the arbitrator allowed to do that while he reviews the testimony? If so, I hope he does. That should make it pretty cut and dry for your argument.
He can do whatever he wants. However I cannot add anything to my case without it being before or during the hearing. That is why I added the computation on loss of use of vehicle right at the end before he moved on. I figured if he does rule in favor and does agree I should be compensated then he has something to use as a basis. Without it he could say I had not way to calculate the loss since no evidence was presented on what that should be. Furthermore, Ford did not object or offer an alternative calculation or a reason why I shouldn't be compensated.
 

WItoTX

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It didn't specifically come up. My brain didn't go into the race aspect but that is a solid point as to say everyone knows what a race is and if you did an HPDE you would recognize the difference.

For the next guy it wouldn't hurt to show a race event and what the cars look like and then show the HPDE event and the cars. Just looking at the paddock area will say everything. As we all know there are very few, if any, racecars that attend HPDE events. If there is a racecar it is either because it has a separate division for those cars and drivers OR it is a car that was once racecars but is now retired as an HPDE car.
Dude.... I'm positive I suggested this exact thing 😂
 

GrabberBargeCaptain

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So their main argument (besides that ESP is not Ford) was that your clutch had some wear and the tires also showed high wear ? Damn if that's their case, then most of us should have our warranties voided lmao!
 
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mikedahammer

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Dude.... I'm positive I suggested this exact thing 😂
Okay mister armchair quarterback....Just messing with you...when it is your turn (which I hope never comes) that is a great idea and I can help you if you need it! It was a lot of junk to present on the spot and digest in a short format on the fly, but I feel good about it.

Regardless of the ruling my take way is that Ford is not going to back down and make sure your car is bone stock and even then if they think the failure was something catastrophic they will say you were racing. They tried to paint the picture that racing is on or off track and acted like it was impossible for a Ford product to fail due to workmanship.

It the words of Antoine Dodson: Hide your kids, hide your wife...
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