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Ford Inspector for Warranty Repair-Update:Warranty Denied Claim Due to Off Road Racing

luc

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I don't know what that means. But the car has been at the dealership since August 16, 2023.
It’s a manufacturer/dealer term ( Vehicle Off Road) that means the vehicle is out of service waiting for parts/repairs
Why don’t you fix your car and enjoy it, parallel to fighting the esp ?
 

Tomster

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I do know their representation is in Florida and that the ESP headquarters is near or in Tampa. Maybe when the arbitration is scheduled I can have you attend electronically and call you as a witness to testify about your knowledge of HPDE and Ford.

I did ask if I do the arbitration virtually if I can share the arbitration zoom link with interested parties. I didn't see anything in the rules that people can't attend. We will see what they say to that.
I am just a driver, such as yourself. I would be happy to help when I can, but it sounds to me like you need an organizer from the event that your attended. I would reach out to them and ask because they would be the ones to state on record that racing at these events is strictly prohibited. They could also emphasize what would happen to the people who disregard the rules and are (trying to) race.

This whole thing comes down to the definition of "racing". The ESP people are going outside the recognized definition and out of convenience, stretching the boundaries and definition for the purpose of denial.

I will talk with the wife about this. In my opinion, you have done a great job so far. I think you ought to have every kind of expert witness pertaining to each aspect of your case on standby and ready to lend assistance. I can assure you the arbitrator will not be a subject matter expert.

Do you have any friends who are attorneys?

I stopped writing for a bit and discussed this with the wife. She is a FL lawyer. She has a lot of questions and she wouldn't mind discussing this with you. If that works for you, PM me your phone number and you two can discuss.

This affects so many of us that I cannot stand by and let you get steamrolled. You need to have all your ducks in a row going into this arbitration.
 

WItoTX

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I do know their representation is in Florida and that the ESP headquarters is near or in Tampa. Maybe when the arbitration is scheduled I can have you attend electronically and call you as a witness to testify about your knowledge of HPDE and Ford.

I did ask if I do the arbitration virtually if I can share the arbitration zoom link with interested parties. I didn't see anything in the rules that people can't attend. We will see what they say to that.
I'd love to listen in if it's possible.

That said, if the call has 200 attendees, Ford probably isn't showing up LOL
 
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mikedahammer

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It’s a manufacturer/dealer term ( Vehicle Off Road) that means the vehicle is out of service waiting for parts/repairs
Why don’t you fix your car and enjoy it, parallel to fighting the esp ?
Because I want it to be able to be inspected as is and not as repaired and I don’t want to move it because I don’t want them to say something has happened or changed since I brought it in.

It really is for my protection in case someone wants to visually inspect what they are alleging. I want it to be in the same condition as I dropped it off.
 

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Mike Pfeifer

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Because I want it to be able to be inspected as is and not as repaired and I don’t want to move it because I don’t want them to say something has happened or changed since I brought it in.

It really is for my protection in case someone wants to visually inspect what they are alleging. I want it to be in the same condition as I dropped it off.
That sounds completely reasonable to me.
 

Michael_vroomvroom

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I am not abandoning this thread unless I am forced to. I was just trying to convey that at this point it will be awhile until there is any useful information as Ford has closed the door on communicating. I did call the legal assistant's direct number multiple times and have not received a return call.
As I'm sure you realise, that makes a lot of sense for Ford of course. As long as they are deciding to deny your claim, it can only affect them adversely to communicate anything more than the required minimum to you. They would not want you to know more than necessary about how they plan to respond at arbitration.

I hope you will be able to present something official that makes it clear to non-motorheads that the hpde-events you have participated in are not to be confused with racing in any way, even if they happened to take place on a racing track.
 

BlkMach10510

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You should employ K.I.S.S. when dealing with the arbitration. You do not want to be talking above their head if they have no knowledge of cars or have a limited knowledge plus it will help others understand it like the other poster said.
 
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mikedahammer

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The good news is they have to lay out their case before arbitration begins so there is going to be an outline to follow. I also have to create a summary. My summary is going to be very simple and direct. I only added all the abstract information before so that hopefully Ford took into account who they were trying to scam and strong arm.

Like I previously have stated:

If track use doesn't violate the contract and the car wasn't abused and was used within the manufacturer's parameters, then what are we doing here. That is the crux of it for me.

Then add in, If track use is instant neglect and abuse, like ESP told me over the phone on their recorded line, then where is that defined in the contract? If track use is not allowed -- where in the contract is it prohibited? The contract is all encompassing of the terms of the agreement between the parties and the word track is used in the contract a total of ZERO times.

If the denial is a non-causal part caused the failure, then why do I have certified Ford technicians, in writing, saying the clutch is fine and does not need replaced if that is what ESP believes lead to the failed part and that they are not longer pursuing the racing angle?

Also why was the original disposition conveniently changed to include the clutch after I challenged the original denial which said it was denied ONLY due to to racing?

The denial was altered to include the clutch because I informed them the car had been to a track but never raced. Now that ESP knows it wasn't used in racing, all of a sudden my clutch is bad and a new reason for the failure. The third party investigator (Centro), according to ESP's recorded line, never reviewed the clutch and the clutch pictures were provided to the ESP before an inspector was ever dispatched and that the ESP had those pictures from the get go. So if the clutch was the non-causal failure then why send an inspector, why not include the non-causal part in original disposition, and why assume the car was raced with no real evidence?

Those are the facts. And quite frankly is a good summation of all the posts in one. It lays out how the ESP is violating the spirit of the agreement so they do not have to fulfill their part of the contract. They have/had the right to terminate the contract at any time on this vehicle knowing that is designed to be used on a track and have chosen not to and therefore they need to service the contract as such and need to uphold their end of the agreement.
 

young at heart

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Anyone who has done a north georgia mountain run will tell you it can be just as hard as a 20 minute track session.
I’ve never done a 20 minute track session so I can’t compare but hard north Georgia mountain runs is pretty much all I do in my Mach 1s. Although I’m not proud of it I do sometimes have leaf peepers pulling off the road to let me by so I figure I’m doing something right. For sure it’s not like a trip over to the closest Publix. But it’s what these cars are made for, and a GT350 even more so. For Ford/ESP to claim otherwise is ridiculous.

But yeah, as others have now pointed out, it’s all about the precedent.
 

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sukhoi_584th

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It's like the parting of the seas in terms of people getting out of the way when driving this car vs anything normal. I'm not even close to other cars and they're pulling off into the first driveway they can find lol. It's a rather unique experience.
 

UpACurb

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You know, I was getting bored with this whole GT350R and GT500CFTP thing. You reach a point and well, you can do only so much with a red headed step child. I was comparing the GTD vs the GT3RS. Why would anyone buy the GTD based on this discussion? The GT3RS is significantly less than the GTD and if you are basing the GTD on the production S650 body, there is only so much weight to be lost. Another porker?

Inquiring minds want to know. Discuss amongst yourselves since this thread has now been abandoned by the OP.
I will say this …. I’m sure you have gotten the opportunity to drive many cars other then Mustangs as have I and without spending a crazy amount of money the 2nd gen NSX is actually a pretty good car ….and the NSX community is pretty damn good too from what I’m told

when one of my buddy was looking for his first play car he was talking to the staff of speed Las Vegas and asking all of them what their favorite car was if they had to choose one to own as a street/ track car and the majority chose the NSX

he has since added a Huracan Technica to the stable as a look at me car but won’t get rid of his NSX as he feels for his skill level it’s a much more predictable car …

I’ve never tracked his NSX but have a ton of seat time in it on back roads and I will say this … if I had the financial means i would buy an NSX …. Adding a tune down pipe and exhaust ti the stock NSX really wakes them up not to mention they sound horrible with stock exhaust but incredible with exhaust work
 

Blwnsmoke

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I am not abandoning this thread unless I am forced to. I was just trying to convey that at this point it will be awhile until there is any useful information as Ford has closed the door on communicating. I did call the legal assistant's direct number multiple times and have not received a return call.

When and if there is a resolution I will provide everything I can. I just didn't want people to think I abandoned it as there may be no updated for the next 30-60 days.
Whatever you do, don't sign anything that requires you to keep your mouth shut if they settle.

I've had a few small claims where they tried to settle the day of, sign a NDA in which I refused.. both times, they caved and still settled without signing.

F that crap that I can't speak about the truth and what happened.
 

MikeR397

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No, the ESP will be changed to call any track use "racing" or they will just flat out not cover the track vehicles.
Meanwhile Chevy specifically allows for track use. Excited my z06 deposit is getting close to being pulled this year. Maybe ford doesn’t want enthusiasts to own their vehicles and showcase what they are capable of?
 

MikeR397

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Whatever you do, don't sign anything that requires you to keep your mouth shut if they settle.

I've had a few small claims where they tried to settle the day of, sign a NDA in which I refused.. both times, they caved and still settled without signing.

F that crap that I can't speak about the truth and what happened.
If they want you to sign a NDA, tell them sure, but for no less than a $100k payout. Then when you can’t talk here we will know what to do when in the same spot ;).

there is 100% zero reason to sign a nda if all they are gonna do is cover the claim. They need to be held accountable for this behavior, not just pay what they should have in the first place and then force you not to talk about it. I would absolutely ask for $100k for a NDA or tell them no, you are happy to win at arbitration and have it be public.
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