Ford GT vs ZR1 at Virginia International Raceway

[millhouse]

Look - the data is not with you!!!!

Lets look at another data set. Randy Pobst, Running a Big Willow. The same consistent pro-racer. Running the same consistent test, on the same track, using the consistent Motor Trend protocol.

Results?

Absolutely the same as the Mero/Johnson results at VIR.

The Z06 is ˜1sec off the pace of the Ford GT.

God I love your math. A 0.4 second loss by the Gt350 at the hands of a ZL1 is a whooping but let’s round 0.31 seconds off of the Z06 to make it look like a close 1 second deficit for the Z06. Did you seriously just go there?

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[Baron95]

Where is the video evidence of the Ford run? Why was there only a snapshot of the time and a twitter post? Why didn’t Ford publish these times?

Because unlike GM's performance cars, that have a built in data/video recorder (standard or optional), Ford has not yet invented such technology. They have to strap on external data loggers and cameras.

Don't you get it? Mero just pressed a button on a the dash to turn on the built in camera and data logger.

Johnson flew in, had his team wire up a data logger for his "oh, I wasn't timing run". Who was trying harder?

 

[Baron95]

Data sucks when it is not supportive of your narrative. Peace bro. The data is posted. I'll let the other members draw their own conclusions.

Go Pats.

 

[millhouse]

Because unlike GM's performance cars, that have a built in data/video recorder (standard or optional), Ford has not yet invented such technology. They have to strap on external data loggers and cameras.

Don't you get it? Mero just pressed a button on a the dash to turn on the built in camera and data logger.

Johnson flew in, had his team wire up a data logger for his "oh, I wasn't timing run". Who was trying harder?

I'm sorry, was Ford supposed not hook up their data recorders when the do instrumented testing? Seriously, where do you pull this horseshit from?

GM on the other hands sends their video out to all of the magazines to publish. Opps! We accidentally set a track record in our pre-production ZR1 with a seat belt bar, different drivers seat and 5 point harness. Oh yeah, by the way...here is the video of our run!

But you're totally right, not planned at all.

 

[thehunterooo]

I'm sorry, was Ford supposed not hook up their data recorders when the do instrumented testing? Seriously, where do you pull this horseshit from?

GM on the other hands sends their video out to all of the magazines to publish. Opps! We accidentally set a track record in our pre-production ZR1 with a seat belt bar, different drivers seat and 5 point harness. Oh yeah, by the way...here is the video of our run!

But you're totally right, not planned at all.

That’s how good the car is! Just imagine if they were actually trying.

 

[Stuntman]

Why did Ford "hastily flew a pro race car driver in"? Is Ford in the habit of flying in their LeMan race car drives to troubleshoot their sports cars?

Maybe because he helped develop the car (and race car) and was the best option to figure out what was wrong with it on short notice after the magazine said there was a problem with the car:

http://www.fordnxt.com/news/billy-johnson-helped-hone-the-2018-mustang-ppl2/

 

[jake_zx2]

Johnson was only there because he knows the car best, and if anyone could replicate the problem and identify it, it's him. If they were just trying to set a lap record, why wouldn't they record it, have an active timer, have a full crew on board, and run the competition package on a day with ideal weather?

The bigger question is, Ford actually had justification to be there... they were diagnosing a problem that happened on THAT car at THAT track at THAT time of year. Why was Chevy there? Why didn't they go to their own proving grounds where they would have better weather, more privatized development time, and wouldn't have to trailer a car all the way to Virginia? Was it coincidence that they went through all this trouble for "no reason whatsoever" a few days after Ford set the record? I don't think so

Ford doesn't care about pissing matches. All their cars are ALREADY sold, and have been sold for 2 years now. They care about making the better car, and sure, even if a ZR1 is faster than the 2 year older GT, that doesn't mean Ford isn't going to bring something to the table that could be faster.

EAGLES NATION, BABY!

 

[Baron95]

The bigger question is, Ford actually had justification to be there... they were diagnosing a problem that happened on THAT car at THAT track at THAT time of year.

This is simply not true. Now even the smart folks here are making stuff up.

The problem happened with ANOTHER CAR on a completely different day.


After the problem, on another day, Johnson was told days ahead of time "C&D will be at VIR can you be there to drive the Ford GT'. He made his plans, showed up, The Ford crew prepped the car, including putting the lap timers. He drove as the great driver he is and set a lap record. Then posted on social media. Simple as that.

It is all explained on the magazine article on testing the Ford GT. It broke down, they couldn't set a lap time, and had to get a replacement car on another day.





What they didn't count on, was that GM has VIR blocked in January for 2 full days of 2019 Corvette validation, where they ran the cars with the new PTM and Magride settings, plus the ZR1. And of course the Z06 was almost as fast as the Ford GT and the ZR1 was faster (as totally expected).

Exactly the same thing that Randy Pobst found at Big Willow. Old 2015 Z06 Manual within ˜1sec of the Ford GT.

There is no mystery.

 

[Baron95]

Go Pats.

Two great teams facing off tomorrow, just like great cars from Chevy and Ford face off on track.

We can all be fans, root for the ones we prefer. But in the end, data is data.

Sunday night there will be a final score on the board.

The Ford GT times are hitting the boards just like the GT350 times hit the board. They are good times, but easily beat by junior varsity cars costing a ton less.

Lets welcome the data. It is great that these magazines are publishing them rather then ridiculous things like burnout contests.

Go Pats.






Just remember that we are arguing which of two great American cars is the fastest of all road cars at a road circuit track. That is the important thing.

 

[LateBrakeU2]

This is simply not true. Now even the smart folks here are making stuff up.

The problem happened with ANOTHER CAR on a completely different day.


After the problem, on another day, Johnson was told days ahead of time "C&D will be at VIR can you be there to drive the Ford GT'. He made his plans, showed up, The Ford crew prepped the car, including putting the lap timers. He drove as the great driver he is and set a lap record. Then posted on social media. Simple as that.

It is all explained on the magazine article on testing the Ford GT. It broke down, they couldn't set a lap time, and had to get a replacement car on another day.





What they didn't count on, was that GM has VIR blocked in January for 2 full days of 2019 Corvette validation, where they ran the cars with the new PTM and Magride settings, plus the ZR1. And of course the Z06 was almost as fast as the Ford GT and the ZR1 was faster (as totally expected).

Exactly the same thing that Randy Pobst found at Big Willow. Old 2015 Z06 Manual within ˜1sec of the Ford GT.

There is no mystery.

Maybe Ford should have checked bookings for VIR in Jan, or brought another GT? just in case.. I'm sorry, but this is a viral world where info is instant globally. GM has it figured out,it's free advertising, Ford should embrace it.

If you're going off proving grounds with a product and puttin it in that instant media arena, you better have your ducks in a row or you could look like a fool. Huge excuse bag here and blind faith by some of the comments, that's cool and all but noone is going to jump camp because of a lap time. Just a quick add- some here are disparaging the GM engineer's driving abiliity, did you actually look at the video clip?. He's committed and using up pretty much all of the car. GM is savvy, they could stick Johnny O in and he would knock a half to a second off Mero's time, but when they can set a time with an engineer everyone comments and that's only with an engineer! Well played.

 

[jake_zx2]

This is simply not true. Now even the smart folks here are making stuff up.

The problem happened with ANOTHER CAR on a completely different day.


After the problem, on another day, Johnson was told days ahead of time "C&D will be at VIR can you be there to drive the Ford GT'. He made his plans, showed up, The Ford crew prepped the car, including putting the lap timers. He drove as the great driver he is and set a lap record. Then posted on social media. Simple as that.

It is all explained on the magazine article on testing the Ford GT. It broke down, they couldn't set a lap time, and had to get a replacement car on another day.


You're confusing different articles, that's the issue. Ford was at VIR the day of the record to diagnose a problem with a car that Road & Track was using for their review, and days before, Car and Driver had set their personal lightning lap record (Not the VIR production car record). These were 3 completely separated events. A quote from Road and Track: "A few months ago, Ford lent out one of its pre-production GTs for track testing, but it unfortunately suffered some mechanical issues. To figure out what was wrong, Ford sent that car, a different pre-pro GT, and racer/development driver Billy Johnson to Virginia International Raceway (VIR) for some testing". again, if Ford was ACTUALLY there to set the lap record, don't you think they would have taken their best, most track-oriented vehicle (like Chevy did) rather than a pre-production base model? I doubt Ford even wanted word of the lap record out there, Johnson just got excited and posted it. Not making anything up, go check your references


What they didn't count on, was that GM has VIR blocked in January for 2 full days of 2019 Corvette validation, where they ran the cars with the new PTM and Magride settings, plus the ZR1. And of course the Z06 was almost as fast as the Ford GT and the ZR1 was faster (as totally expected).

So, essentially, they went there to beat the record. You really think they spend thousands transporting a car across states to drive it on a track JUST for testing when they have their own personal development track in their backyard... oh, AND it just so happened to be the track that the GT just set a record at? Stop drinking the cool-aid, this isn't the first time Chevy said made outrageous claims like this

Exactly the same thing that Randy Pobst found at Big Willow. Old 2015 Z06 Manual within ˜1sec of the Ford GT.

as it's been said before, I REALLY don't understand how you think the .4 second difference between the GT350R and ZL1 is an eternity, yet 1.4 seconds is mind-numbingly close. Again, stop drinking the cool-aid
There is no mystery.

red

 

[jake_zx2]

Oh, and eagles nation

 

[millhouse]

Because unlike GM's performance cars, that have a built in data/video recorder (standard or optional), Ford has not yet invented such technology. They have to strap on external data loggers and cameras.

Don't you get it? Mero just pressed a button on a the dash to turn on the built in camera and data logger.

Johnson flew in, had his team wire up a data logger for his "oh, I wasn't timing run". Who was trying harder?

red

Haha, dude...he's so brand blind that it's made him completely clueless. He doesn't even realize that Billy set this lap record 3 months ago and likely wasn't even supposed to post it.

 

[BillyJRacing]

Someone sent me a link to this thread.

For the record, I was not the first person to post a pic of the time. Once it was leaked, I posted a pic on IG. Months after it happened.

R&T has the story correct and interviewed me. I'm actually quite disappointed in how lazy automotive journalism is these days. How "journalists" simply copied and pasted that R&T interview, took things out of context and made up information out of ignorance or to try to embellish or differentiate their article from the original interview, since they put zero work into it themselves.

There was an issue with a MT test, I flew out last minute, days after to validate the problem on the black/orange car with a known good car (red one), but that car suffered an isolated fuel pickup issue that required it to run full on track. This was actually known by C&D before they drove that car. The red car was just recently fixed after MT & C&D did their track tests with it. It's very time consuming to fix but it was the only car to suffer that problem.

I turned the 38 during an A-B evaluation to diagnose the black car's problem. The Motec was used for diagnostic purposes between the two cars and theirs no in-car video because I wasn't there to set a record, but to "work". We don't tend to throw GoPro videos in cars for development and diagnostic tests. In retrospect, I wish I had a video even for my own personal records, but that's not why I was sent to VIR, plus the day was far from ideal, so there wasn't even hope for turning an impressive time that should need video records of.

Of course i'd love to have a crack at a time with a car that at least had titanium exhaust, if not the lightweight competition series, that could turn a lap on a low fuel load and have the support with new tires on a good day. Unfortunately those aren't Ford's goals.

If GM isn't being facetious, I look forward for their faster, "official" lap time in a production car with stock seats. I'd love for them to throw my buddy Tommy Milner in the car to see what I can do.

Are the end if the day, it's great to see all of these cars being made, especially since they're faster than a lot of dedicated racing cars, and you need a pro driver to get within a couple seconds of it's limit.

 

[cosmo]

Thanks for the clarification!

I hope you get the opportunity to go out with one of the cars with the titanium exhausts and the lighter weight, I hope Ford changes their mind with not wanting to be competitive with their lap times.

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