First AutoX + New Mustang Owner = Lots of fun and room for improvement!

[JustDSM]

First off, what a weekend!

After a 10+ year hiatus from driving and tinkering around with AWD Mitsubishi's I decided to try something new, and picked up a new 2020 PP1 GT 6spd manual. I intend to take a departure and change up my historic modus operandi of engine modification above all else. I want some more "driver mod" and put some effort into the suspension/chassis to be able to enjoy the wonderful motor under the hood.

With just 400mi on the odometer and the car in showroom stock condition, it was time for Event #1 of the North Texas Autocross Series. (www.ntaxs.com) Went into the event without really much expectation as I have virtually zero driver experience behind anything front engine/rear drive in anything even remotely "sporty" in nature. This was my first ever autocross event in a car that had zero prep. I really wasn't expecting much considering there were a few cars in my class (Class 4, Anything on 200+ treadwear with engines over 4.0L) that were well prepped, and clearly not their first rodeo.

I was in group 1 and probably the 10th or so car out the gate. Adrenalin kicked in, and you'd think I was a 16y/o driving dad's Mustang! Tail end wagging every which-a-way... After the first few corners I collected myself and put things together. Struggled "reading" the course at speed, as my DNF's would tell you. But I did start to get the hang of things and managed to put in two solid runs (for me) in the 2nd session. Managed to best a nice gentleman in a C7 Z06 who I can only imagine had his hands full with that beast.

Results (I'm car #51): http://www.ntaxs.com/uploads/2/5/5/1/25513290/2020_1_mar_1_fin.htm

In car video:

What I learned:

• I have a lot to learn!
• I'm hooked!
• Front end of the car felt great. Lots of roll and not much static camber made things difficult for the PS4S's, but the front of the car felt pretty well sorted in comparison.. I definitely will have more negative camber in it for the next event.
• The rear of car felt "disconnected". It definitely wanted to rotate under throttle which I used to my advantage at times, but it just didn't communicate what it was doing very well. Undoubtably my "driver mod" is weak, but the rear of the car didn't jive well with me.
• Lots and lots of body roll. Will need to address.
• The car had more than enough power for me at my driving level. I found it difficult to read the course at times (more so in the first session) at the speed I was approaching each section. I'm sure this is more a product of my first autox event than the raw speed I was traveling.
• I need to USE the brakes. My first runs I realized I was giving up a lot of time by being too gentle with the brakes. I dropped my times significantly in the 2nd session by being consciously more aggressive on the middle pedal. The stock PP1 brakes were good, but their ability is taxed by the porky nature of the car no doubt.

I just thought I'd share and appreciate all of you who've created a wealth of a resource here with a ton of information to guide this newbie along on his journey.

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[NightmareMoon]

Front camber ian’t adjustable from the factory, so you’re stuck with that unless you bump yourself to a modified class (like CAMC) or get serious about doing what fiddly tweaky camber mods the rules (barely) allow. Sounds like your local club doesn’t follow the usual SCCA classing so thats odd.

I find it really rewarding to autox the mustang. Sure its heavy but the power is fun and it can grip well if you give it the time it needs to take a set. Learing to keep the rear behind the front where it belongs and keep the front pointed where you intend takes a while if you’re new to RWD cars, but there’s nothing more rewarding than a RWD car driven well. Glad you had a blast!
If you’re down in central texas sometime try to make a Spokes or SASCA event.

 

[BmacIL]

Awesome that you did your first event! It's very addictive. Welcome!

Mostly focus on getting more seat time, but I shared your feelings on the car's handling. It became obvious that the car I actually wanted to drive was going to fit in better in a deeper Street Touring or CAM-C SCCA class. Figure out your goals and plan carefully before buying anything. It's a very capable platform. The best thing to do to make the car work better is RE71R tires and a bigger, adjustable front swaybar. 275/35R19 will fit on all four corners.

 

[TDC]

Great hearing about your experience. Another thing I’d add to the recommendations above is to get some lighter wheels. For autox flowforged wheels will keep the cost down and lose about 8lb per corner. Need to stay factory on the width and no more than an additional 7mm offset to stay legal in F-street category.

To get better at running the course walk it 2-3 times and as you go through visualize driving through it. Take the first run at a steady pace, no dnf, and then review the video several times before your next run to learn it.

 

[SteveW]

I wouldn't even worry about modifying the car beyond tire pressures and alignment right now. In fact, don't even worry about the alignment for a couple more events. You need to get a few months of seat time in to even begin to understand what the true potential of the car is and where you might want to go with it regarding modifications. Plus, the Monday after autocross weekend is called: the autocross hangover. Hide your credit cards from yourself until at least Wednesday. The adrenaline wears off about then, trust me, lol!

What I tell novices is to start of mentally telling yourself to drive at only 50% of what you think the limits of the car are for the first run or two. There is so much coming at you that you need brain power available to think about the course and where you're going rather than having to focus so much on just controlling the car.

When you're new car control does not come naturally so don't try to drive at what you think the limits are right off the bat while also learning the course. You'll DNF and be slow like you found out. Eventually, things start coming together and you get smoother, way faster and have even more fun as car control becomes second nature and you begin anticipating what the car will do. Or better yet, are ahead of the car making it perform for you.

 

[JustDSM]

Front camber ian’t adjustable from the factory, so you’re stuck with that unless you bump yourself to a modified class (like CAMC) or get serious about doing what fiddly tweaky camber mods the rules (barely) allow. Sounds like your local club doesn’t follow the usual SCCA classing so thats odd.

I find it really rewarding to autox the mustang. Sure its heavy but the power is fun and it can grip well if you give it the time it needs to take a set. Learing to keep the rear behind the front where it belongs and keep the front pointed where you intend takes a while if you’re new to RWD cars, but there’s nothing more rewarding than a RWD car driven well. Glad you had a blast!
If you’re down in central texas sometime try to make a Spokes or SASCA event.

As you noticed, the particular club that hosted this event does not follow the SCCA classing. Their classes are strictly based on +/- 200 treadwear and engine displacement. I've not yet attended any of the SCCA events either so I can't really say much. I do know that my car was out of the gate at a disadvantage with the tires. Everyone ahead of me was on much wider tires and/or on stickier rubber. I'd say this series is rather generous on what is allowed and that is probably appealing for many.

I too found the mustang exceptionally fun to autocross. It's not nearly as nimble as the Miata's that were zipping around, but it brings out ear-to-ear grins after each run! I've got no regrets with the decision of putting a mustang in the garage. I think a little more experience will help me be a little smoother with the throttle transitions which I suspect will in turn lead to keeping the rear in check.

I'm certain I'll venture down that way some time. ;)

Awesome that you did your first event! It's very addictive. Welcome!

Mostly focus on getting more seat time, but I shared your feelings on the car's handling. It became obvious that the car I actually wanted to drive was going to fit in better in a deeper Street Touring or CAM-C SCCA class. Figure out your goals and plan carefully before buying anything. It's a very capable platform. The best thing to do to make the car work better is RE71R tires and a bigger, adjustable front swaybar. 275/35R19 will fit on all four corners.

Thank you! It really was a rewarding experience with a lot of fun. The wife even enjoyed her time at the event. She even mentioned bringing out her car (2019 Corolla Hatch) and getting involved!

Seat time, specifically getting familiar with the car would do a lot for me. I took it pretty easy for the first 100-200 miles on the car for obvious reasons, and the last 100 or so started to feel it out in a responsible manner. Just isn't possible to replicate the conditions of a autocross course on the street, so it was very rewarding to see with the car was really all about. I wouldn't be surprised if I left probably ~2 seconds on the table with driver mod alone which would have put me in the top 5 of my class.

I'm a tinker type, so the car will some goodies eventually. As mentioned in my reply to NightmareMoon, the class I run in allows any and all modification so long as I run a 200 treadwear tire or above. I intend to primarily focus on driving and gaining seat time, but as skills develop I'll work on getting the car to work with me/for me.

I found myself lusting after some RE71R's at the event as quite a number of folks were running them and I've read all the raving reviews on them. I suspect a set may end up on the car at some point in the year. How do the 275's fit on the stock 9" PP1's?

The wife commented on the body roll of the car and "how it's much worse than most of the other cars". I certainly felt it in the car too. Front sway bar thoughts were heavily on my mind as I went to bed after the event.

I wouldn't even worry about modifying the car beyond tire pressures and alignment right now. In fact, don't even worry about the alignment for a couple more events. You need to get a few months of seat time in to even begin to understand what the true potential of the car is and where you might want to go with it regarding modifications. Plus, the Monday after autocross weekend is called: the autocross hangover. Hide your credit cards from yourself until at least Wednesday. The adrenaline wears off about then, trust me, lol!

What I tell novices is to start of mentally telling yourself to drive at only 50% of what you think the limits of the car are for the first run or two. There is so much coming at you that you need brain power available to think about the course and where you're going rather than having to focus so much on just controlling the car.

When you're new car control does not come naturally so don't try to drive at what you think the limits are right off the bat while also learning the course. You'll DNF and be slow like you found out. Eventually, things start coming together and you get smoother, way faster and have even more fun as car control becomes second nature and you begin anticipating what the car will do. Or better yet, are ahead of the car making it perform for you.

Solid advice (from all of you!) and focusing on the basics is where I intend to start. I don't know how Ford sets the cars up, but they look to have about a degree or so of negative camber stock. After one of my slower runs I drove back to the pit, and took at look at the front tire temps. Observed the outside edge temps about 45deg hotter than the inner edge (85* inside/130* outside). That was running 34psi cold. With that much of a delta between inside and outside temps I didn't feel that adding more pressure was really the answer, as I presumed the car was just rolling over on the outside edge due to body roll combined with the low static camber. What would the more experienced say given those conditions?

I caved in a little and picked up some camber plates as I just didn't want to put the front tires through too much more hell. That autocross hangover is real man! As I told BmacIL, I was thinking about a front swaybar too, but I decided to keep it reasonable and address the alignment as my first stage of modification. I don't daily the car, it's more of a garage prop and weekend toy than anything so I'd like to see if I can get -2.5deg on the front with the plates. Was thinking about -1.5 degree out back with maybe touch of toe in.

I'll definitely be taking my first run or two at a much more casual pace. After the event on the drive home and I had a little time to think about the day, that came to mind. As mentioned, I've never participated in a SCCA event, but this organization has all the drivers in 4 running groups. When you're group is up, you make 4 runs. They essentially want you to 'hot lap' it. Taking a little time to pull off to adjust pressures/etc. but you don't go back to the pit. Seemed a little odd to me, but that's their method.

Again, thanks to you all for the words of encouragement and advice. I will no doubt have more to follow-up with!

 

[NightmareMoon]

I caved in a little and picked up some camber plates as I just didn't want to put the front tires through too much more hell. That autocross hangover is real man! As I told BmacIL, I was thinking about a front swaybar too, but I decided to keep it reasonable and address the alignment as my first stage of modification. I don't daily the car, it's more of a garage prop and weekend toy than anything so I'd like to see if I can get -2.5deg on the front with the plates. Was thinking about -1.5 degree out back with maybe touch of toe in.

That's a good plan for alignment. Camber plates will help the wear pattern, but you need even more than that to get even wear on the front tires. Front swaybar is also a good change. Welcome to CAM-C class (since those mods will put you there).

 

[BmacIL]

That's a good plan for alignment. Camber plates will help the wear pattern, but you need even more than that to get even wear on the front tires. Front swaybar is also a good change. Welcome to CAM-C class (since those mods will put you there).

Yup, over -3 is needed.

 

[Schnupper]

275 fits fine on all 4 corners of the pp1 wheels. I ran 275 rivals and switched to 275 in front and 285 in rear for the last 2 events of the season with RE71r. Once you have either a set of rivals or re71rs you will have a ton more confidence on laying the power down. And you were correct you definitely need to use the brakes more. The best way i have found to be fast in the car in street form is slow in and fast out. The car rotates really well on throttle in the turns. Best way i can describe it is be slowed down enough on entry to be able to be full throttle at the apex and stay on the throttle and trust the car will grab and stay at the slip angle on the exit. Oh welcome to an addicting hobby.

 

[Mustang Tony]

Does the OP have Magneride?

 

[JustDSM]

Does the OP have Magneride?

I do not. It's a Base 301A and PP1 car.

 

[Mrummel1989]

First off, what a weekend!

After a 10+ year hiatus from driving and tinkering around with AWD Mitsubishi's I decided to try something new, and picked up a new 2020 PP1 GT 6spd manual. I intend to take a departure and change up my historic modus operandi of engine modification above all else. I want some more "driver mod" and put some effort into the suspension/chassis to be able to enjoy the wonderful motor under the hood.

With just 400mi on the odometer and the car in showroom stock condition, it was time for Event #1 of the North Texas Autocross Series. (www.ntaxs.com) Went into the event without really much expectation as I have virtually zero driver experience behind anything front engine/rear drive in anything even remotely "sporty" in nature. This was my first ever autocross event in a car that had zero prep. I really wasn't expecting much considering there were a few cars in my class (Class 4, Anything on 200+ treadwear with engines over 4.0L) that were well prepped, and clearly not their first rodeo.

I was in group 1 and probably the 10th or so car out the gate. Adrenalin kicked in, and you'd think I was a 16y/o driving dad's Mustang! Tail end wagging every which-a-way... After the first few corners I collected myself and put things together. Struggled "reading" the course at speed, as my DNF's would tell you. But I did start to get the hang of things and managed to put in two solid runs (for me) in the 2nd session. Managed to best a nice gentleman in a C7 Z06 who I can only imagine had his hands full with that beast.

Results (I'm car #51): http://www.ntaxs.com/uploads/2/5/5/1/25513290/2020_1_mar_1_fin.htm

In car video:

What I learned:

• I have a lot to learn!
• I'm hooked!
• Front end of the car felt great. Lots of roll and not much static camber made things difficult for the PS4S's, but the front of the car felt pretty well sorted in comparison.. I definitely will have more negative camber in it for the next event.
• The rear of car felt "disconnected". It definitely wanted to rotate under throttle which I used to my advantage at times, but it just didn't communicate what it was doing very well. Undoubtably my "driver mod" is weak, but the rear of the car didn't jive well with me.
• Lots and lots of body roll. Will need to address.
• The car had more than enough power for me at my driving level. I found it difficult to read the course at times (more so in the first session) at the speed I was approaching each section. I'm sure this is more a product of my first autox event than the raw speed I was traveling.
• I need to USE the brakes. My first runs I realized I was giving up a lot of time by being too gentle with the brakes. I dropped my times significantly in the 2nd session by being consciously more aggressive on the middle pedal. The stock PP1 brakes were good, but their ability is taxed by the porky nature of the car no doubt.

I just thought I'd share and appreciate all of you who've created a wealth of a resource here with a ton of information to guide this newbie along on his journey.

nice! I just did my very first autoX event down in La Marque today in my 18 pp1. Had a blast.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I do not. It's a Base 301A and PP1 car.

If you're going to upgrade the tires to RE71R, I think you'd do well to consider running them on a separate set of wider wheels (ending up with a combination more like what comes on the PP2, plus you'd not be wasting heat cycles in street driving). You'd already be in SCCA's CAM-C with the plates and I'm not seeing the PP2 being upclassed relative to the PP1 or base GT in the organization that you just ran with.

More related to seat time, when you do your course walks, look back toward where you've been from time to time. Sometimes it helps to see where you had to have been "back there" to end up where you want to be once you get "here". Another little trick would be to draw your own course map. No need to individually spot every cone, only the key cones and some of the pointer cones. Draw a rough driving line through them for yourself. Chances are that the sections that feel more difficult to draw will be the ones that you'll have more difficulty driving. Between runs, it'll be quicker to find the places where you need to work on from a map than from watching through a video (though you could do that in addition if time permits). I'm assuming that once called to grid that everybody gets their first run before anybody gets their second run, and so on.


Norm

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

I caved in a little and picked up some camber plates as I just didn't want to put the front tires through too much more hell. That autocross hangover is real man! As I told BmacIL, I was thinking about a front swaybar too, but I decided to keep it reasonable and address the alignment as my first stage of modification. I don't daily the car, it's more of a garage prop and weekend toy than anything so I'd like to see if I can get -2.5deg on the front with the plates. Was thinking about -1.5 degree out back with maybe touch of toe in.

I hope this thread isn't too old for me to chime in...

I don't know how Ford sets the cars up, but they look to have about a degree or so of negative camber stock.

Yes, that's right.

The S550s default alignment specs are available somewhere on the internet.
I got my alignment checked on mine within weeks of buying it. Turned out to be about -1* of camber in front, -1.5* in the rear which is about the middle of spec. (Actually my rear camber was a little lopsided.)

Have you checked out the build threads on the Vorshlag forum? I think they ran their S550s with -3.4* of camber in the front, and -2.2* in the rear. I seem to remember several similar figures on this forum.

I can look out my office window and see that my Mustang doesn't have much camber in the front, and it bugs me quite a bit. A car's camber starts to look right at about -2* in front.

A LOT of autocross success comes from training your brain to look ahead. It becomes intuitive that anticipation is key, and any time you call on reflexes you're already behind. That's part of why guys much older than me can be good at autocross.

I'm much better at checking tire pressure than temperatures between runs. The recommended pressure in the car's manual is a minimum. The number on the side of the tire is a maximum. Neither tells you how much pressure you need on an autocross course. I like to mark my sidewalls with chalk between runs and see how far down the chalk gets rubbed off.

I'm pretty sure these triangles on my tires are a guide for how far the scuff marks should come around the shoulder. (Someone told me otherwise once, and I thought their explanation about helping get the tire out of the mold sounded sketchy)

I can also vouch for what Norm says above, about looking backward. When I walk the course, I often like to stop on a curve and rethink what line I needed on entry to get the right exit. Sometimes that means I go back and walk that curve again.

On any given "gate", one cone is way more important than the other. Most cones are just there to penalize you if you lose control. Over time you learn how to judge which are the important cones, which are good visual references (turn-in, braking points, etc.), and which are just clutter.
When you come across this thing called a "Chicago box", it could have 20 cones, but only 3 are important. It's just a slalom that looks intimidating.

Anyway, welcome to autocross and I hope you keep having fun!

 

[SteveW]

I'm pretty sure these triangles on my tires are a guide for how far the scuff marks should come around the shoulder. (Someone told me otherwise once, and I thought their explanation about helping get the tire out of the mold sounded sketchy)

That's the conventional wisdom but it is wrong. All the triangles are for is to identify where the wear bars are in the tread.

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